<p>Hi guys, I'm a senior looking into some of the lower ivy leagues. I have heard some horror stories about their financial aid though. For example, a friend of mine had received amazing financial aid from Cornell his first year but received terrible financial aid his second year (even though his family income did not change). Because of this he had to return back to his hometown and attend our local state U. Asides from this anecdote, I have heard other similar horror stories like this that have occurred recently within the lower ivy leagues. How often this occur? Is it really true that they just give amazing financial aid the first year and completely screw you over for the next few years?</p>
<p>My question is the opposite.</p>
<p>What if you get, let’s say, a promise of $10,000 a year in financial aid, but then your father loses his job in the third year of college. Can you then get more aid.???</p>
<p>I don’t understand the Cornell story unless his family assets changed or he didn’t submit his form on time. Cornell caps loans and does tend to meet their calculated need…perhaps their methodology changed from one year to the next? Anyway, I would say that there’s probably more to that story than you know. Perhaps you should post your question on the Cornell sub-forum to see what other students have experienced.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.finaid.cornell.edu/cost-attend/financial-aid-initiatives[/url]”>http://www.finaid.cornell.edu/cost-attend/financial-aid-initiatives</a></p>
<p>Here’s what they say about future years…</p>
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<p>floridadad, you can always file an appeal based on special circumstances. It is up to the school to grant/deny the adjustment but most will look to see how long the parent has been out of work. It seems they often won’t adjust it immediately for loss of income but after a few months they’re more likely to.</p>
<p>My daughter attended a 100% needs meeting, no loan school. We earned more each year she attended school, but her financial aid increased every year.</p>
<p>*For example, a friend of mine had received amazing financial aid from Cornell his first year but received terrible financial aid his second year (even though his family income did not change). *</p>
<p>Maybe their income didn’t change, but maybe Cornell realized that this family had assets that had not earlier been declared or calculated.</p>
<p>To the OP…the anecdote you report is just that…an anecdote. Do NOT believe everything you hear about financial aid from your friends or their families. Folks seldom tell the whole story. It is very likely that the financial situation for this family DID change significantly…otherwise at Cornell, his aid would have remained very similar. The school meets full need for all students who are enrolled and unless there was a change (or the student didn’t apply for aid on time in subsequent years), the aid should have been about the same.</p>
<p>And what exactly is a “lower Ivy League”. All of the schools in the Ivy League are in the Ivy League. They ALL guarantee to meet full need AS THE SCHOOL DETERMINES IT TO BE for all accepted students (except some don’t do so for international students). All reevaluate your financial need annually and if your financial situation is the same…there is not much change to your aid.</p>
<p>Did your friend perhaps have a sibling in college while he was a freshman…someone who was NOT in college when he was a sophomore? THAT could have doubled his family contribution.</p>
<p>Our FA increased each of three years as my salary decreased progressively due to: working the full year to work/retirement part year to retired for the full year. All other factors remained pretty much the same, no conspiracy for us.</p>
<p>Blaming finaid is one way to cover for poor academic performance or another problem. You never know anyone else’s full story. Our FA also went up at a great LAC. But, frankly, costs and the amount of the Staffords went up, too.</p>
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<p>How close is this "friend’? Besides a change in financial circumstances as pointed out by others, perhaps finaid is just an excuse for why he went home. Perhaps it was grades. Perhaps it was homesickness. Perhaps he/she hated upstate NY winters…</p>
<p>But I can assure you that the this tier colleges don’t play games with financial aid. It is not in their interest to do so. Sure, they might save a few bucks for a few years, but the PR impact of article after article in the NYT would damage their reputation. It just doesn’t happen at that level.</p>
<p>Yeah he’s not that close of a friend, just some guy I see every now and then. I don’t know what the real story is, but I would agree that an Ivy League institution probably wouldn’t ruin their rep by playing financial aid games. Thanks for the clarification guys.</p>
<p>I agree with the poster who wants to know “what’s a lower tier Ivy”? There ain’t such a creature, kiddo. All eight (and there are only 8 in the Ivy League) are incredibly high caliber colleges. So are CalTech, MIT, the service academies, Deep Springs, Webb Institute and a few more. </p>
<p>The financial aid staff (in our experience) at Dartmouth were incredibly professional and very, very clear about when things were due and what was being offered. I think they would be rather offended if a student ever implied that they were less than professional. </p>
<p>Each year we submitted the FAFSA and an additional set of paperwork. We also had to send in tax forms to their IDOC service address (I’ll admit that part was a bit unclear the first year) but there certainly was no “bait and switch” at work. </p>
<p>I actually have heard of some small, expensive liberal arts schools on the west coast that had smaller “packages” for juniors and seniors. My nephew went to Pacific Lutheran and had a tale along those lines – but those sorts of stories need to be investigated college by college.</p>
<p>By lower ivy, I meant the ivy leagues with lower endowments per student. I really didn’t mean to come off offensive, I apologize if I did. I was just under the impression that if a college had a smaller endowment per student, then it would give less financial aid compared to a college with a higher endowment per student. However, from what I read endowment is irrelevant since all ivy leagues promise to meet hundred percent of financial need.</p>
<p>In one respect, the OP’s question (and terminology) is not unreasonable. HYP is typically synonymous with the tippy-top Ivies and HYP definitely has a higher endowment/student and definitely offers much more generous need-based packages than every college, including the non-HYP Ivies. (HYP considers those in the top 5% of income in the world to be deserving of need-based aid.) Based on what I have read on cc, Cornell, typically considered the “lowest” Ivy, has a less generous need-based package than does Dartmouth-Brown, the mid-Ivies. OTOH, the Ivies as a group offer much more generous need-based aid than other colleges, even those in the top 20, with perhaps the exception of Stanford which caps home equity. (Dunno anything about MIT/Caltech.)</p>
<p>There may not be a conspiracy, but we did experience the big drop in aid. Initially our student was offered “zero” aid from Dartmouth, but we sat down with FA and he was offered a very generous “scholarship” which allowed him to attend. The amount decreased significantly in sophomore year so we took out PLUS loans. In Junior and Senior year he was offered no “scholarship”; only loans. We appealed the decision Senior year and he received a $5,000 award ( obviously a drop in the bucket!). Our financial position improved marginally ( we are far from rich) but with 2 students in college 3 out of the 4 years I don’t understand the decision by FA. I feel there was a “bait and switch” element to our experience ( GPA remained at or above 3.5 so I don’t believe grades were an issue). Not sure how widespread this is, maybe we are just isolated cases. Good Luck!</p>
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<p>RE: Post 14…Dartmouth offered him need based monies and it sounds like it was a reconsideration of your initial financial aid application. If this was based on the Dartmouth folks looking at specific circumstances regarding your finances for that one year, then there was no guarantee they would make a similar adjustment in subsequent years especially if the basis for your reconsideration was viewed as a “one time” event.</p>
<p>Also if you are self employed or own a business, this could also impact this issue. And as mentioned upstream somewhere…when there are no longer siblings in college…the family contribution is no longer split between them.</p>
<p>I’m sorry this all happened to you but I have never heard of Dartmouth decreasing need based aid for students who have significant financial need that does not change. And until this year, didn’t they also have a no loan policy for students with family incomes below a certain amount?</p>
<p>I’m not wishing to pry into the poster’s personal financial info (which quite frankly is NONE of our business) but even at the “lower Ivies”…(a term I find odd), the need based aid can be expected to remain stable IF your family financial situation does not change (including number of students in college/number of people in the household, etc).</p>
<p>You raise a good point, Thumper, in that the complexity of a family’s return can make a difference. Certain non-cash items get added back to financial need formulas for those that own businesses, or partnerships.</p>
<p>Our experience with D was just as they state on their website. Essentially, finaid calculation stayed the same all four years. But then we have a simple return – W2 income.</p>
<p>Not a “little Ivy” but our 100% no loan school’s financial aid has stayed consistent the second year in a row and I have a fairly complex financial aid situation.</p>
<p>This is how the situation looks to me:</p>
<p>mjbktm was not eligible for aid when his/her son was admitted to Dartmouth and was expected to be a full pay student. Dartmouth uses the word Scholarship, when granting the school’s instiutional aid instead of stating grant aid. No financial aid is given on the basis of grades.</p>
<p>Parent filed an appeal using offer and some extenuating circumstances (could be another child enrolled in college). Dartmouth used professional judgement to grant student some aid since they do not offer merit money. Family went from zero aid to some aid.</p>
<p>Parent stated that finanical picture improved marginally over the years (operative word is what constitutes marginally?)</p>
<p>Year 2 - parent files FA paperwork. Based on income, assets family financial picture looks as student’s family needed less of the school’s resources and financial aid decreased.</p>
<p>Year 3- Family filed FA forms. Dartmouth deemed that family had no finanical need and no aid was given. Family offered plus loan most likely to meet EFC.</p>
<p>Year 4 family files financial aid paperwork. Was determined not to have a financial need and was not given any aid. Family appealed and school excercised professional judgement to grant $5000.</p>
<p>To state that Dartmouth did a bait and switch is a little unfair to me and a bit disingenuious, because the school is very up front with the fact that families must file for financial aid each year and that aid is determined based on the family’s financial situation. </p>
<p>Based on what the parent wrote there was no “promise” implied or otherwise that student would continue to receive the same consideration for professional judgement year over year or that they would receive the same exact aid package through out their 4 years nor does it seem as if the parents asked up front how their situation would be looked out in future years.</p>
<p>I can only talk to my situation; daughter was admitted to a school that is a direct competitior of Dartmouth’s. Daughter was given a package that had no loans (this was before either school adopted a no-loan policy). D knew that Dartmouth was her first choice. We filed an appeal sending them the offer from the other school. When Dartmouth matched the offer, I asked how the no loan portion of the package would be treated in future years. </p>
<p>They told me that they would not give D any stafford loans as part of her financial aid package (however, D requested and took out a small loan from Dartmouth the year she did her study abroad). Other than that loan, Dartmouth held true to their word and there were no loans in their financial aid packages. </p>
<p>The aid however did decrease a little each year as income increased. The small study abroad loan was the only “debt” she had when completing undergrad.</p>
<p>sybbie raises an important nomenclature point: many need-only colleges call their grant a ‘scholarship’. But it is truly just a need-based grant using another name.</p>