<p>Ithaca is bliss. You can do much worse than to spend four years of you life in Ithaca. That said, it’s not for everybody.</p>
<p>Penn actually has one of the largest and strongest community service programs in the country, and its program has received significant national media attention and serves as a model for other urban schools. For example, Penn has a well-funded center to coordinate 3 types of community service: “academically based community service, direct traditional service, and community development”:</p>
<p>[Barbara</a> and Edward Netter Center for Community Partnerships, University of Pennsylvania - About the Center](<a href=“Netter Center for Community Partnerships |”>Netter Center for Community Partnerships |)</p>
<p>Another example of Penn’s extensive involvement in community service and social activism is Civic House, an entire building on campus dedicated solely to serving as the “hub for student led community service and social advocacy work”:</p>
<p>[Civic</a> House: University of Pennsylvania](<a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/civichouse/]Civic”>Civic House – Civic House)</p>
<p>Another example is the new Civic Scholars program for undergrads:</p>
<p>[Civic</a> Scholars at the University of Pennsylvania](<a href=“http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/civichouse/civicscholars/]Civic”>Penn Civic Scholars Program – Civic House)</p>
<p>Additionally, regarding Penn undergrad in general, although Wharton is definitely a strong presence, it certainly doesn’t “overshadow” the Penn undergrad experience. In numbers alone, Wharton has only about 1800 undergrads compared to 6400 in the College of Arts and Sciences, 1600 in the School of Engineering and Applied Science, and 500 in Nursing. If any of the undergraduate schools overshadows the others, it’s the College, since every single undergad at Penn is required to take several courses in the College. And many of the College’s departments are top-notch: 10-15 departments–e.g., Art History, English, Psychology, Linguistics, Music, Anthropology, Religion, Economics, Sociology–rank in the top 10 nationally, and another 10 or so departments rank in the top 20. So as the OP points out, Penn is quite diverse and offers a broad and deep range of undergraduate academic experience.</p>
<p>Sounds like maybe you should visit all eight. I know all of the Ivies have community service institutes that are highly involved in their local communities. Here’s the one for Cornell:</p>
<p>[Cornell</a> University Public Service Center](<a href=“Einhorn Center for Community Engagement”>Einhorn Center for Community Engagement)</p>
<p>It’s mostly a question of student culture.</p>
<p>You might like Vassar or Wesleyan as well given your interests.</p>
<p>Also try Tufts and Middlebury. Middlebury kids LOVE Middlebury.</p>
<p>Check out Duke while you’re at it. If you’re interested in social activism and service opportunities, then Duke may be your cup of tea. The Public Policy department is amazing and the school has recently launched a new program that will allow undergrads to do service projects abroad fully funded by the school.</p>
<p>[DukeEngage</a> | Home](<a href=“http://dukeengage.duke.edu/]DukeEngage”>http://dukeengage.duke.edu/)</p>
<p>“Anyone feel that I should consider Dartmouth, Penn, or Harvard”</p>
<p>In view of that question, there could be an arguement to check into Dartmouth - opportunities to ‘make a difference’ abound and are encouraged. A large portion of the student body participates in service projects ([Dartmouth</a> - Campus Life - Community Service](<a href=“Campus Life | Dartmouth”>Campus Life | Dartmouth), [Vox</a> of Dartmouth - Dartmouth is “College with a Conscience” - 07/25/05](<a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/~vox/0506/0725/service.html]Vox”>http://www.dartmouth.edu/~vox/0506/0725/service.html) )</p>
<p>Two years ago Dartmouth was ranked first among similar-size schools for producing Peace Corp volunteers - this year it remains in the top ten but has dropped to sixth: [Dartmouth</a> News - Dartmouth named number one in Peace Corps participation in the small schools category - 01/30/06](<a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/~news/releases/2006/01/30a.html]Dartmouth”>http://www.dartmouth.edu/~news/releases/2006/01/30a.html)
[Dartmouth</a> No. 6 Producer of Peace Corps Volunteers](<a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/~tucker/news/highlights/peace-corps-1-17.html]Dartmouth”>http://www.dartmouth.edu/~tucker/news/highlights/peace-corps-1-17.html)</p>
<p>A number of opportunities exist through the Tucker Foundation which providesfunding and support for a number of student initiated endeavors.<br>
[<link href=“/~tucker/_site/styles/non-standard.css” type=“text/css” rel=“stylesheet”> </p><div class=“skip-to-content”> <a title=“Skip to main content” href=“#main-content” accesskey=“m”>Skip to main content</a> </div> <div class=](<a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/~tucker/about/wjtf.html”>http://www.dartmouth.edu/~tucker/about/wjtf.html</a>)<p></p>
<p>Dartmouth launched a Careers from the Common Good initiative a fews years back: [Careers</a> for the Common Good](<a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/~csrc/students/common.html]Careers”>http://www.dartmouth.edu/~csrc/students/common.html)</p>
<p>I am not sure your interest is specifically public policy but these programs may may interest you - again there is a lot of support for student initiated programs:
[First-Year</a> Initiative - General Information](<a href=“http://rockefeller.dartmouth.edu/students/fyi/index.html]First-Year”>http://rockefeller.dartmouth.edu/students/fyi/index.html)
[Policy</a> Research Shop](<a href=“http://rockefeller.dartmouth.edu/TrainingandEducation/researchshop.html]Policy”>http://rockefeller.dartmouth.edu/TrainingandEducation/researchshop.html)
[Funding</a> Opportunities](<a href=“http://rockefeller.dartmouth.edu/students/funding/index.html]Funding”>http://rockefeller.dartmouth.edu/students/funding/index.html)</p>
<p>I don’t think anybody is denying that Dartmouth students and alums are very involved in social causes, but the issue for the OP is what is the percentage of students playing pong at Dartmouth? It has to be a lot higher than what it is at Brown, Columbia, Cornell, or Yale.</p>
<p>I attended Cornell. We drank a lot. But everytime I visited Dartmouth I was amazed at how much the kids drink there… and seemingly everything revolved around pong! If that’s your thing, it’s awesome. Otherwise the alternative activities may be not as good as at places like Brown, Cornell, or Columbia.</p>
<p>A good friend of mine from high school attended Dartmouth, and he was very happy to attend as he was a legacy and was able to fall in pretty well with the Christian group on campus. But I think his freshmen year was kind of hard for him because everybody in his suite was playing beer pong all the time. </p>
<p>I just think the OP, if he has an aversion to beer pong, may be prudent for ruling out Dartmouth. I don’t know. Maybe there are substance free dorms at Dartmouth. Or maybe he will quickly overcome this aversion and become the beer pong champion of whatever school he decides to attend. Life is an exercise is constrained optimization. </p>
<p>I also don’t want to sound like a Dartmouth hater either. I’ve been to two weddings of Dartmouth alums, and will be to two more over the next year. The school is great, and I have enjoyed many a ultimate tournament, hockey game, and hoking expedition in the Upper Valley.</p>
<p>In fact, Dartmouth and Cornell are my two favorite schools in the Ivy League. And I wish there was a school in the Northeast with top academics that contained Dartmouth’s sense of community with Cornell’s public-mission, egalitarian spirit. I was on another thread giving slipper a hard time, but it wasn’t over Dartmouth per se, it was about blindly jockeying any one of the top 10 to 15 non-HYPSM schools over another.</p>
<p>You might find this list of schools profiled in the publication “Colleges with a Conscience” a good starting point - Penn, Harvard and Dartmouth, along with Brown and Princeton, all appear, but so do 76 other schools well worth your consideration. [The</a> Princeton Review: Colleges with a Conscience](<a href=“http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/conscience/]The”>http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/conscience/)</p>
<p>Cayuga - I actually just thought OP was asking for information she might not have been in possession of that might cause her to consider any the three schools posters are warning her against (Harvard, Dartmouth, Penn). 45 Percenter gave her (and perhaps other posters) some useful information and probably new information about Penn. I attempted to give her similar information about Dartmouth and I would bet someone could steer her toward helpful Harvard links. Truth is, all these schools have funds to devote to, and an investment in, service and humnitarianism - but OP might be surprised, when she starts digging, at how pervasive it is at one campus relative to another, how much more, or not, egalitarian one student body is relative to another.</p>
<p>This is so helpful you guys. I’m a huge social activist as well and I want a school with a good social life- but I’m not so much into the whole beer pong thing. I really love Columbia. I visited NY for a month last year and Harlem really isn’t all that scary…in the daytime. Plus, Marc Jacobs, nightclubs, and food stores galore really make for the best place ever…I mean, it’s NY!!</p>
<p>But I was wondering about the other Ivies…I’ve heard that UPENN is kind of..pretentious, or blue-blooded and rich. Which would make sense to me because they seem to have a very high admittance rate for legacies. </p>
<p>Right now, the ivies that I’m considering are Columbia and Yale. I’ve heard that Cornell is really science/engineering oriented, UPENN=wealthy elitists, Darthmouth- beer pong, way too much greek life, Harverd= nerdy,nerdy, Brown= druggies, hippies, artists, writers</p>
<p>Obviously, I am totally stereotyping and if you guys could comment on my ‘stereotypes’ and perhaps how true( or not) they are, it would be helpful.</p>
<p>Cornell is science and engineering oriented, but that being said, there are probably 3-4000 students at Cornell studying the social sciences. </p>
<p>I actually think Yale is more pretentious and elitist than UPenn… but not necessarily blue-blooded rich as there are a lot of kids on aid… they just act like they are blue bloods. And UPenn has a pretty strong bourgeois streak to it.</p>
<p>And yeah, Brown does have that ‘Sex Power God’ party thing going for it, but all of the Brown alums I have met have been quite normal. </p>
<p>Cornell is the most laid back and unpretentious, but there has been a strong history of activism at Cornell. </p>
<p>And all of these statements are obviously sweeping generalizations.</p>
<p><a href=“http://cornellactivism.org/pub/Legacy/WebHome/Brochure-2.2.fnl.pdf[/url]”>http://cornellactivism.org/pub/Legacy/WebHome/Brochure-2.2.fnl.pdf</a></p>
<p>A characterization of Penn as “pretentious, or blue-blooded and rich” “because they seem to have a very high admittance rate for legacies” is belied by the facts.</p>
<p>First, only 15% of the Class of 2011 are legacies–that’s 360 out of 2400 students:</p>
<p>[Penn</a> Admissions: Incoming Class Profile](<a href=“http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/profile/]Penn”>http://www.admissionsug.upenn.edu/profile/)</p>
<p>I’d bet that the other schools you’re considering have similar percentages of legacies in their undergraduate student bodies.</p>
<p>Second, about 40% of Penn undergrads receive financial aid, with 524 members of the Class of 2011 coming from families with annual incomes of less than $90,000 (meaning there are 1 1/2 times as many students from that background as there are legacies), and 284 of those students come from families with annual incomes of less than $50,000:</p>
<p>[A</a> Look at the Facts, Comparing Penn’s Cost](<a href=“http://www.sfs.upenn.edu/paying/paying-pro-look-at-the-facts.htm]A”>Submit My Documents | Penn Student Registration & Financial Services| Penn Srfs)</p>
<p>Again, as percentages of the entire freshman class, these numbers are comparable to the other schools you’re considering.</p>
<p>Third, as I pointed out in post #22, above, many Penn students are heavily involved in community service and social activisim and advocacy.</p>
<p>Fourth, Penn has had the highest percentage of international students in its entering class of any national university in the country (including, of course, the entire Ivy League):</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/374418-national-universities-percent-international-students-recent-freshman-class.html?highlight=international[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/374418-national-universities-percent-international-students-recent-freshman-class.html?highlight=international</a></p>
<p>So to sum up, be careful about accepting overly simplistic stereotypes and generalizations you may hear about schools, especially ones with undergraduate student bodies as large (10,000) and diverse as Penn’s.</p>
<p>What is your rationale for only thinking about Ivies, OP?</p>
<p>My main criticism of Penn is that it accepts so many of its students Early Decision – close to 50 percent – and ED applicants are much less likely to need aid. </p>
<p>At Cornell, I believe the number is closer to 33 percent. Cornell would have an amazing yield, with probably no change in the average academic qualifications of the entering class, if it filled half of it’s class ED. But Cornell isn’t really interested in playing the rankings game.</p>
<p>Also, 45 Percenter, you may want to contact the Penn office regarding the table they have on class rank. Maybe I can’t read a chart, but the numbers for the ‘top decile’ don’t add up.</p>
<p>To the OP,
You might find some useful information in this thread which discusses both Ivy and non-Ivy colleges ranked in the USNWR Top 20 national universities. </p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/348753-ranking-social-life-usnwr-top-20-a.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/348753-ranking-social-life-usnwr-top-20-a.html</a></p>
<p>
Still, the numbers speak for themselves, and 40% of Penn undergrads do receive financial aid. I would guess that Cornell’s endowed schools have similar percentages.</p>
<p>Also, ED doesn’t really affect the “rankings game” anymore. Yield is not a factor in the US News rankings, and acceptance rate counts for only 1.5% of the total ranking score. </p>
<p>And in terms of the class rank table, the numbers are not supposed to add up. The numbers are the percentages of applicants with those class ranks who were accepted, and not the percentages of all accepted students with those class ranks. In other words, 38% of all valedictorians who applied were accepted (and 62% of all vals who applied were rejected), 31% of all salutatorians who applied were accepted (and 69% of all sals who applied were rejected), 18% of all applicants in the top 5% who weren’t vals or sals were accepted (and 82% of those in the top 5% were rejected), 6% of all applicants in the second 5% were accepted (and 94% of those in the top 5% were rejected), and a total of 19% of all applicants in the top 10% (most of those being vals, sals, and other top 5%) were accepted (and 81% of all applicants in the top 10% were rejected). It’s confusing, but that’s what they’re trying to convey (and what they’re similarly trying to convey in the SAT table, i.e., the percentages of students in each score range who were accepted/rejected).</p>
<p>Ah. I see. Thanks. </p>
<p>When it said ‘percent admitted’ I thought it meant “percent of the class admitted”, e.g. 38 percent of the entering class at Penn was ranked 1st in the class.</p>
<p>A bit confusing.</p>
<p>As for the rankings game, when the composite scores are only separating each other by one point, it seems like every little bit counts.</p>
<p>43 percent of Cornell students receive need-based financial aid, but it’s a bit like comparing apples to oranges, as 2500 students at Cornell are getting a tuition discount through the contract colleges, and might be receiving aid in the endowed colleges.</p>