Ivy League recruiting

In my son’s sport – soccer, so completely different – kids for whom the Ivies don’t work out often go d3 (the Ivies are a weaker d1 conference). If your son would be happy at a NESCAC school, or a UAA on (University of Chicago? Emory?) he should reach out asap. In soccer, a potential Ivy recruit would likely be welcomed with open arms and would likely become an impact player – starter, get a lot of attention.

So it really depends on whether your son wants to apply to the Ivies no matter what, or whether he could see himself being happy at a non-Ivy school. I am hoping he wasn’t only talking to Ivy coaches but had some athletic/academic “safety” schools in the mix too.

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If none of the Ivies work out, he will have no choice but to apply to other D1 schools. He is not interested in D3s because he was running faster than majority of the D3 recruits in his sophomore year and would not be challenged in a sport he is so passionate about.
One of the Ivies said no because someone said “yes” to the coach a day before my S did.

In my opinion, the coach’s letter without offering a slot is a pebble on the scale. The coach gets so many slots and when he uses them up it is iffy if the letter carries any more weight than say the music director wanting a bass or the art department really wanting more sculptors. It does make the application a little more ‘front and center’ in the admissions department as someone at the school has met the applicant and thinks they’d be a good fit with the school.

That said, if a coach offered the letter for ED and he doesn’t have any other schools to use the ED on AND he really wants that school and is academically qualified for it, why not go for it?

He should start working on other schools right away for RD and get those coaches looking at him

Sorry to hear things didn’t work out this top choices. I’m surprised as it seems like things were heading in the right direction. The recruiting pool must be very good this year.

It’s normal to be sad and frustrated. But I’d also encourage him to keep in mind that there will be other options for him and there are dozens of schools where he can excel athletically, academically, and socially.

I’d reach out to other coaches immediately.

This sort of thing happens to recruits all the time. Coaches understand.

If he hasn’t already reached out to all the Ivy schools where he’d have interest, do that now. Just let them know things didn’t work out at his target schools and ask if they’re still recruiting for next fall. Odds are slim but non-zero. I’m thinking schools like Cornell or Brown but maybe he’s tried those already.

But I’d expand the search beyond one conference. Yes, get back in touch with any other coaches. Then start looking at the good running programs at any school that would fit academically. Most of those won’t have the sort of rushed timeline this fall that Ivy programs have. They recruit well into the spring and at most of those admission isn’t much of a hurdle for a strong student.

If you’re in a state like NC, VA, CO, WA, WI, MI etc with good flagships that have strong running programs they’d likely love to hear from your son.

He can still apply to Ivies and walk on if admitted. You could check with the coaches if ED is necessary for that. If you’re not giving anything up it’s an easier decision.

The nice thing about distance running is that there are still a lot of decisions being made into the winter and spring at most programs and for most runners.

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@boldbluecranes,

We live in the moment and this moment may suck. In hindsight, however, you might end up thinking it was the best thing that ever happened. It has happened to some of us, and in the final analysis, some of us were grateful that it did.

Think back on all the posts where other recruits have been disappointed because a D1 recruit dropped into a coach’s lap. Well, maybe your son is that D1 recruit. Of course, go back to the teams that were trying to grab him. Also try reaching out to some D3 schools. If LACs are not his thing and the academics are on par, try Chicago, Tufts or maybe JHU. The Ivies are great, but all things being equal, the chances for admission are not.

Best of luck.

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How many OVs has your son used up?

I know there are student athletes who get in without the full coach support. However, the student athletes who got in this way that I know the full story on were also legacy in addition to having top grades and scores. I’m not sure how much the athlete angle really helped these cases. It’s really hard to get into most of the Ivy League schools on grades and scores alone. If it doesn’t ruin other plans, you can give this a try, but know it will be a long shot.

Reach out to the other Ivy League coaches that he didn’t do an OV to. It’s possible they still have a spot left. I don’t have any inside information, but the turmoil at Brown and Dartmouth might give you an opening.

After that, your son needs to cast a wide net to see what is available. If his scores were good enough to talk to the Ivy League coaches, he will not need much admissions support at many other schools, so then it’s just a matter of fit and space.

S went for 3 OVs. He had been talking to each of the coaches for over 6 months and they would spend considerable amount of time talking to him. They never gave any indication that he would not be getting their support. The convos and the OVs were so great that there was no reason to believe that none of them will eventually materialize. Although my S was handling the process himself, I think the coaches could have been more professional / honest when dealing with a 17 yo child.

He has good GPAs [top 25% in a fairly competitive school], SAT score of 1520+ but not sure whether these are enough to make him attractive to other schools. Apart from school & and running, he has not done much. In fact, he never got time to spend on any other extra curriculars.

He did reach out to other coaches but they say they do not have any slot left. Looks like he will have to start his reach outs afresh now.

While a couple of them have offered to write a letter of support, S is not sure what follow up questions to ask them and whether he should consider ED based on that “letter of support”. He does not have any ED college now so would not mind applying based on “letter of support”. His application for the three that said “no” are ready for submission though.

I don’t think it sounds like any of the coaches were less than forthcoming (of course I don’t know all the details). But it’s common for coaches to offer more OVs than they have spots.

Your S should ask each of the 3(?) ED coaches how much weight their letter has in the admission decision, and what proportion of past applicants with said support letter were admitted.

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I am sorry the process didn’t pan out for your son, the game of musical chairs for the slots that follows official visits can be brutal. Right now, it’s important to not waste time, bandwidth or emotional energy dwelling on what didn’t work out. Instead, he needs to dust himself off and put plans B, C and D into action. Your son still has opportunities, but he will need to get the ball rolling again.

First, if he already has three EA/ED applications ready, there is probably no harm in submitting one of them.

Thats good news that your son still has two OVs left. Reach out to the schools that your son had told no to when he thought there was going to be an Ivy option. My son was in touch with three non-Ivy programs that were willing to wait to see if things didn’t work out for him in the Ivy League, and he would have been happy at any of them. Perhaps the schools your son was in touch with earlier are willing to talk to him now. If those aren’t open, make a new list and submit those forms and send those emails. Plenty of solid programs get most of their recruits through regular decision.

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Sorry for your son and family for the disappointing news. What you described I have heard of and seen with Ivies.
I had a kid that was a D1 recruit for T&F and was recruited to a top Ivy and received a Likely Letter, so I have a bit of experience, though others have more insights.
I am not sure how much a letter of support helps, though your S could certainly apply ED/EA to his top choice. At Ivy’s it is not only about grades. I have known some with very strong academics get rejected, while someone with lesser academics, and no other support, get admitted.
I do know someone that was told at the end of an OV that they would not be getting support or an offer but if they were admitted they would be welcome on the team. They did apply to the school , they got accepted and were on the T&F team.
XC-T&F have fairly large teams. I can understand how we get our hopes set on a particular school though with his academics, there are many fine schools, including state universities, that have excellent academics and he could be on the XC-T&F team.
Also, as many have said and I am sure you are probably doing, my strong recommendation to all is to pick the school not on sports. I would put the sport 3rd or 4th on the list behind the school fit, the academics and factoring in the cost if that is a factor, which it was for our family.
Just in my circle I know of quite a few athletes that went to a school in which sports was a the main factor for selecting that particular school and they did not compete or transferred out as it was not a fit. There are also injuries, and then many find they want to partake in the other parts of the college experience and choose not to play.
Wishing your S the best of luck. He sounds like a fine young man and I am sure it will work out and he’ll have an excellent college experience.

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Coming on late to the thread and different sport - your son went on 3 OVs and I am wondering if each coach thought he would pick one of the other schools. Did he have a favorite - both academically and for his sport ? did he communicate that to the coach immediately. You mentioned that one coach gave the spot to someone the day before - I just wonder if he was not communicating his commitment to any of these teams - no coach wants an offered recrot to say no.

If he has a favorite and is a match academically, I would reach out to only that coach and ask about soft support in the ED round. Liking them all may have worked to his disadvantage - just my opinion.

On my child’s crew team - Ivy- several come on woth soft support, as it is their top choice and the coach knows it. She has seen it for swimming too - a
these spirits like XCTF you need ti times ti stay and place - so no different in soft support and full supported once the school year starts - the coach wants the best team and no clue if the fully supported athletes will keep up their fitness, get injured or do not do well academically.

I vote for soft support and an honest talk with 1 coach indicating your disappointment and how the school and team is him #1.

Good luck.

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no sign of the edit button and typing on my phone - sorry about all the typos !

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If one of the schools is Harvard, I believe the letter of support can make a difference. Harvard has multiple applicant assessment categories, one of which is athletics. The coach’s letter might make the difference between a 2 and 3 rating in the athletic category, which makes a big difference for students with strong academic and personal ratings. Not sure about other schools.

Did the schools share the results of the pre-reads? Has he considered other high academic D1 schools outside the Ivy League - USC, ND, Georgetown, Northwestern, Vandy?

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Our Ivy recruiting process worked out, but there are a few things I wish we had done differently, as we were almost in the same place. You really need to sort out where you are at in the pool, to get your stretch / safety balance right in picking your OV’s. In my daughters case, she basically wasted her stretch visit because it was immediately clear she was at the bottom of the pool during her visit - we should have been more direct with the coaches prior to picking OV’s. Coaches gave her positive feedback (including setting aside time for us on unofficial visits) so she felt good, but then ended up doing an OV and not getting an offer. If you are in the top 50-100 (as opposed to 1-50) the matching process is much trickier. It was very hard to figure out how competitive it would be at each school. It’s obvious if you are a ‘great’ catch for the school - then they really lay it on. But if you are just in the running, then it is hard to sort out.

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Potential recruit athlete went for OV two weeks back. Coach said he would call back in a day or two to talk about next steps. It has been over 2 weeks and coach has not called back. No response to text messages, emails or voice messages. Is this normal?

I wouldn’t say it’s normal but it does happen, unfortunately. That sort of lack of response this time of year can be a sign that the coach is waiting for other pieces to fall into place. It’s a busy time in the season but recruits high on the coach’s list usually aren’t left hanging like that.

I’d keep trying but make sure to work on other options.

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Others may have more insight so here is some quick thoughts from my end:

  • At the end of the OVs, and often before, the coach will come out and say where you stand and if you are at the top of their list and will be offered a spot if you commit, then apply.

  • Some coaches are better than others at getting back, though it sounds like the coach may have other(s) higher on his list and is waiting for other recruits to confirm if they are committing.

  • As others have said, it is a moving puzzle with recruits/students, so I would keep in touch, don’t lose faith, though think about your other options and next steps from your end if a spot/LL is not offered.
    Curious-did they go to any other Ivy OVs, and if so, what was that experience as far as coach communication with support?

This was the only OV they went to.

Can anyone confirm whether the calculation of AI has changed given TO policies? And if not, how does an athlete apply TO while still having to submit scores for AI purposes? Thank you!

The way it was explained to me is that the AI formula assumes an SAT score (presumably on the low side) if no score is submitted.

I suppose it is possible that a student athlete has SATs that are better than the default score, but still low enough that they are better off applying TO. Perhaps the athletic department can use the scores for AI but not have the student send them to admissions.