Amtrak from South Station in Boston to Providence takes 40 minutes and it’s an easy walk or a five minute cab from the station to campus. Driving takes 1-½ hours to 2-1/2 hours during peak times. Driving from Providence to NYC can take up to four hours, depending on when you arrive in NYC. Timing is everything. And this is not easy driving…it’s sitting on the GW Bridge for 45 minutes, inching along. Assuming this is unfamiliar driving for the OP?
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
This is a valid question, but not in this thread. Hijacking a post is rude to the original poster; questions such as this should be addressed as a new question.
Same message as above.
Agreed. I don’t want to close this thread in case the OP does return, but I also think add’l repetitive advice is unnecessary.
@intparent I’m frequently in agreement with you, but I don’t quite understand what the issue is with an Ivy tour. If an excellent student is coming from the west coast (or wherever) to Providence for a specific reason and is interested in seeing the Ivies, doesn’t it make sense to tour them? We don’t need to know her stats for a road itinerary. (For all we know they are also looking at Reed, Pomona, Berkeley and UCLA.) Not every student who wants to see the Ivies is unrealistic or prestige-hunting. OP made a straight-forward request that I think was a reasonable one. Yes, there are some wonderful “matches” out there that OP’s D should consider looking at as well, but that is for another thread if OP chooses to start one.
I would say that our Ivy visits were valuable, yes. First of all, my daughter crossed some schools off her list based on the feel of the campus.
We visited plenty of other schools, not just Ivies, and yes I know that the Ivies are a huge reach for almost everyone. But our household income is such that if she did get in there might be some need-based aid, so it seemed worth a shot to apply.
So far my daughter’s been accepted to two safeties and is waiting to hear from matches and reaches. If she has any shot at the reaches I think it’s because of the lively essays she submitted. Her “why this college” essays wouldn’t have been nearly as good if she hadn’t been able to visit the colleges.
The thing is, the notion of visiting most of the Ivies suggests a lack of preparation or insight into the various qualities and differences of the 8 schools. One rarely thinks that a kid who responds positively to Columbia with its strict Core curriculum and urban environment, will react similarly to Dartmouth, which is more like a large LAC and quite isolated from major metropolitan life.
Sure, it is doable to visit Harvard, Brown, Yale, Columbia, Princeton and Penn within about 3-5 days. A tour and info session takes about 3 hours on campus. And they would probably all blur together, but it could be a fun, tourist-type week. But if a student is meeting with prospective coaches, getting tours of athletic facilities etc., that becomes an all-day visit to one school, and it is then hard to keep the energy for the next day’s visit. If that is the plan, I would encourage the OP to find a way to filter the list to focus on the best matches for recruiting, if that is on the table.
Well, we visited RIT, Wells, Ithaca and Skidmore on one trip. Did that suggest “a lack of preparation or insight?” Our independent school college counselor suggested that we take D to a range of schools, with varying core requirements. (She is enormously happy with her choice, so we must have done something right).
I toured a bunch of colleges- Ivy, tech schools, urban/rural/suburban and I found all of them helpful.
My kids- it varied. And it depends on what kind of kid you have. One of mine would have been happy living in a crack in the sidewalk- just that kind of kid. One of mine was highly sensitive to environment, surroundings, “fit”, vibe, culture- whatever you want to call it. And of course most kids are somewhere in the middle.
At the end of the day, the visits were helpful. The kid who didn’t care about the nice buildings or city/rural was able to focus on what really mattered personally- strength of academic offerings and “intensity” in a couple of disciplines which were the likely areas of interest. And that was really valuable. No sense arguing about the percentage of frat members at one campus or another if the kid is literally indifferent to Greek life. And the kid who cared about environment and fit and all that got to narrow the list based on personal preferences even though some of them seemed quixotic and a little irrational. And the kid who sort of cared and sometimes didn’t got to eliminate based on “why fly out to Chicago if Hopkins is “just as nice” and is a train ride away?”.
The danger of the Ivy only tour is an application strategy which is “Ivy or bust”. But in the absence of that- this sounds like a fun trip. It helps the student clarify what’s important (each Dartmouth trip and info session, even the one we attended in NYC) started with a description of how often Dartmouth kids go skiing. Left us cold (no pun intended) since we have less than zero interest in skiing.
Is this a good thing? Dunno. I know plenty of Dartmouth grads and students who don’t ski. But if you’re trying to evaluate the differences between studying math at Princeton, Chicago, Dartmouth, or Swarthmore, and if everyone at Dartmouth talks about skiing but the folks at the other colleges talk about stuff you love to do and care about doing more of (like how many math majors at Princeton and Swarthmore are champion debaters), then it seems to me that visiting has performed a valuable function.
The visits also help with the “kids who love Dartmouth love these colleges as well” exercise. If you tell me your kid loves Brown and can only see himself at Brown… I can’t help you. If you tell me your kid loved X about Brown (like the number of kids majoring in other subjects who are active theater or musical performance participants for example) then I can talk to you about Muhlenberg or Skidmore or Conn College.
Our comparatively abbreviated “Ivy tour” --we visited Brown, Yale, Columbia, and Princeton on one trip–and Cornell visit at another time was valuable in that S crossed Cornell, Columbia, and Princeton off his list for various reasons.
On the other hand, we live in Southern Maine and have relatives and friends in CT/NYC, so it was easy for us to take a nice trip, stay with relatives/friends, and see schools.
Coming from the West Coast is another matter. I think it s perfectly reasonable for the OP’s family to take a look at several Ivies while they are visiting one anyway. That doesn’t mean that she doesn’t have safeties on her list also.
@MidwestDad3 If your list was formulated based on specific interests and priorities, great. But a list which is 7 schools whose common denominator is prestige and a sports conference, that doesn’t seem well-thought out and seems to be a recipe for heart-break and frustration come spring of senior year. I’m from the east coast, know most of those campuses, and kids or adults who have attended them. Sure a kid can find their niche at Brown as well as Columbia. But I can’t imagine trying to visit 7 of them on a single trip. If I were making a trek out east from the west coast, it would seem a more productive use of time to add schools which are not reaches for everyone, especially in and around Boston and Philly, rather than do the college visit equivalent of “See Europe in 7 days.”
But it can be done, by car, readily. Heading one way from Columbia, you are an hour to Princeton and then another hour to U Penn. Heading the other way from Columbia, you are about 2 hours to Yale, then a few more hours to Brown, and an hour from Brown to Harvard. I would assume someone whose destination is Providence for the competition would likely fly into Boston, so rent a car, see Cambridge (though Boston traffic is awful) and drive to Providence, then head to Yale, Columbia, Princeton and Penn. Fly out of Philly, though there will be increased costs with a rental return at a different destination. Dartmouth is 3 hours from Boston, and inconvenient to access no matter how you slice it. Hanover is lovely in the summer, though for a west coast kid, may be more useful to hold off visiting until fall/winter to see how the student feels about cold and snow.
We hit Princeton, Yale, Harvard, and then Brown in four days via car. We were very glad we had the car as we were able to stay in low-cost brand name hotels outside the designated areas as well as visit a few unique-to-the-area eateries. I would also highly recommend flying out of an airport close to the last school visited. We flew home out of NYC after visiting a college three hours away and were caught in Carmageddon after a train crash caused commuters to hit the roads and were stuck in traffic for seven hours, missing our plane by minutes (it was fun visiting NY an extra day, but still).
More unsolicited advice: take lots of pictures and notes, as it does all tend to run together after you return. Plus, they really were great memories because of the little side adventures along with the visits. However a child is applying to a school (recruited athlete or otherwise), at least two visits is hugely beneficial (the larger number pre-look and then the whittled down next look). In the end after everything is sorted out, it comes down to “feel and fit” and the more information, the better.
OP didn’t even say her child was a junior in high school. May be younger and just doing a preliminary tour.
Every year there are a number of students who apply and get into the 8 Ivy schools. If non athletes do it, why shouldn’t an athlete try to get into a certain athletic conference? She also didn’t set a time limit for this tour, so maybe she has allowed for a day at each school.
I agree that to get to Dartmouth a car is more convenient, and I liked the Brown-Yale-Dartmouth-Harvard loop, then take the train to Columbia -Penn-Princeton suggestion. Some people don’t drive or rent cars, so that needs to be considered.
Our son was a recruited athlete, so yes taking a trip to visit several different Ivys (He eventually visited seven of the eight) was worthwhile. A couple of things if the OP is still around, and speaking as the father of a recruited athelete now playing at Princeton and a non recruit who is going through the college search, and whose number one school so far is the one Ivy her brother never visited. First, being a recruit is different. While fit is still the most important thing when picking a college, it is a far different calculus for a recruit than a “normal” student. The style of play of the particular team, the “vibe” of the team and coaches, the athletic facilities, the way atheletes are percieved on campus all become very important. Yes, the general “feel” of the school is still important, but because the recruit will spend so much time with his or her teammates and practicing his or her craft these things become a big piece of the calculation that is simply not present for other students. For example, my son found the “vibe” at Dartmouth and Penn to be very similar, and both made his short list. But looking at those schools from the macro level they are very different. You won’t glean that type of information from here or guide books, so visiting the schools interested in you is very worthwhile, imho. Two, if you are visiting schools as a recruit, there is no way you can accurately budget your time. I went on unofficials with my son that lasted two hours, and others that lasted all day. That makes train travel very tricky I would think. Three, even for a non recruit, I think there is some value at looking at several of these schools in the abstract, to give a student some context for the type of schools which may be ultimately of interest. A kid who likes Dartmouth but felt uncomfortable at Penn or Columbia has learned something about the type of school that may be attractive to them. Maybe look at Amherst, Hamilton, Colgate and not bother going to Georgetown, Villanova and BC. Loved Princeton but hated Harvard? You are either far to in to orange or maybe an undergraduate focused school is more your cup of tea. Last, some of these places are just cool to see. Beineke Library remains my favorite building ever. Blair Arch, Princeton’s chapel, the Low Steps, the Green, Harvard Yard, these are all really neat things to see. Nothing wrong with playing the tourist.
@gourmetmom When going from Providence to NYC you actually don’t cross over the George Washington Bridge unless for some reason you went across the Tappan Zee Bridge first and traveled south which would make no sense since you are crossing the Hudson River twice for no reason. Nevertheless, your point is well taken that traffic can be a major hassle. Still, if planned carefully to avoid rush hour, driving would be sooo much easier than dragging luggage and her sports bags onto trains, taxi, subways, busses and potentially around campuses.
I would not be at all dissuaded from driving in to see Columbia. The bridge is annoying and can get congested if you are there at rush hour but the Henry Hudson is not at all bad, and there is a parking garage a block off that road and a block and a half from Columbia. Frankly, it is a bigger pain to drive into Penn than it is to get to Columbia. And I say this as a midwesterner who has made the drive in to both schools at least a couple times each.
I agree that driving to Columbia isn’t as bad in practice as in theory but if you had more trouble driving into Penn then you did it wrong.
@Falcon1 - I don’t cross the GW bridge, just get stuck in the traffic ahead of it…usually take the Hudson Pkwy into Manhattan.
I think that if you are flying into Providence anyway, Brown-Harvard-Dartmouth-Yale makes a lot more sense than the other way round for the northern swing. Then Columbia-Princeton-Penn and fly home.
My mistake, I took this sentence literally.
@Ohiodad51 : I think your post #91 was very insightful and useful.
There were about 8 other posts about the value of visiting the ivies before mine, not sure why I got singled out as the thread jacker? Is it because it was a question instead of a comment?