seeking assistance on tour itinerary for east coast spring break trip

College Search & Selection
1

Hi CC experts, I am looking for guidance on touring a few schools, including logistics and schools I’m missing. Son loves Dartmouth, but is seeking other options. He has been on a number of tours with his sister, but didn’t love anything even close to Dartmouth. For reference, he liked Tufts, but hated BU and Northeastern and Bates.

He is outdoorsy, athletic (not not a recruit) and preppy, and likes STEM (probably engineering but maybe physics and/or pre-med). He loved Dartmouth for its rural location, smart students, and possibility of liberal arts/engineering, and loves the size. Greek and sports not a negative. Lehigh a match on paper but not in reality, and his sister attends; though he’s very social, its probably not intellectual enough (though very very challenging for engineering) and too much of a party school.

Since Dartmouth is a reach for all (including him) we are trying to take him to other schools. Major plus for engineering as an option but we are looking for exposure to schools “like Dartmouth” generally.

We are considering a visit to the following- am I missing any and is this out of order? Are there any pairs we can realistically see in one day? In particular, how does anyone see Midd and Williams? I can’t figure out how to do both info sessions, timing wise, with the drive.

Day 1: Fly to Swarthmore, stay overnight near Lehigh (S is prob too small but does offer engineering)
Day 2: Fly to see Middlebury (most like Dartmouth according to CC?)
Day 3: Drive see Williams (ditto ^)
Day 4: Drive to see Cornell (has engineering, outdoorsy)
Day 5: Drive to see Rochester (engineering, plus most likely of these options)

We can also reverse, and drive from Lehigh to Cornell (skipping Rochester), flying home from Burlington.

I am also considering Johns Hopkins (another reach, maybe best on a separate tour, and not rural)

Thoughts and advice much appreciated.

2

How about Rensselaer?

3

I don’t know anything about it, I will look it up. Thanks!

4

Swat, Midd, Williams and Cornell are also reaches for anyone – is the goal to find other match schools to visit? If so, then possibly Union, or, if engineering is not a mandatory element, St Lawrence.

5

oh yes of course they are. sorry, should have specified I know that. he’ll also apply to some larger state flagships we think are more likely. Just trying to find other LACs of interest. Thanks!

6

Cornell and RPI were the first two that I thought of for you. While Troy isn’t a beautiful location, it is so close to really great natural beauty - Adirondack State Park is less than an hour away and the Saratoga region is really great for all types of activities. Union College is nearby too, although their engineering options are more limited - I think they only offer 3 different types. Did you know that the Dartmouth engineering program is really a 5 year program? That was the main reason my D didn’t consider it. She is very outdoorsy and not a real partier, and she’s having a ball at Cornell this year. Clarkson is another good choice, but may be too far out of the way for a visit.

7

If it isn’t too small perhaps stop by to visit Lafayette while you are in the Lehigh Valley. It has a much less dominant Greek Life/party scene as compared to Lehigh so may be a better fit for your S. Excellent engineering. (For full disclosure my D recently graduated from Lafayette and loved it.)

8

RPI, WPI, RIT, Cornell, NYU

9

thanks everyone for the suggestions! I think we are looking for more LAC than tech school and more rural than urban. will consider all suggestions tho, so thanks again!

10

Then, for rural LAC, with amazing winter sports (and an Adirondack semester option which involves living in the woods . . . . ), St Lawrence is worth a good look. There is greek life, but it is less than 20% participation, and athletics are excellent, with a D1 hockey team and D3 in other sports, gorgeous athletic facilities, excellent food. Kirk Douglas, Viggo Mortenson went to St L. There are shuttles to Boston and NYC at breaks, which can make travel easier.

11

If you go to Williams, maybe see Amherst College too. They are 90 minutes apart.

12

@taliecharley “He is outdoorsy, athletic (not not a recruit) and preppy, and likes STEM (probably engineering but maybe physics and/or pre-med).”

I,m confused? Please clarify for the tech school graduate who majored in Economics and loves languages. Perhaps my choice of schools and final selected major explains my confusion.

As a “preppy” who had French educated roommates from Africa in my secondary school, I found myself rooming freshman year in college with a US public school graduate who spent every minute he could find studying as he had never been challenged in his public school. He never forgot how to work and by our tenth reunion had been appointed head of research at Hughes Network Systems (formerly Hughes Aircraft). His major was mechanical engineering. I consider this cultural experience a valuable part of my education.

The headmaster called me into his office to sell me on the idea of an Ivy where relatives had gone and FA was available through my father’s employer. Without knowing the problem he had caused, Dad had told me years earlier as we drove past the campus that he knew students at our local Polytechnic and that they worked very hard. They also owned/operated most of the large employers in the area. In those days, these Polytechnic students did not come from Prep schools. They were largely first generation students.

Do we have:

  1. a student with a broad range of interests who is trying to decide between engineering/physics/pre- med and a fully

    developed major in the humanities, or
  2. student/parent desire to remain in a familiar environment while perusing studies in engineering/physics/pre-med, or
  3. concern with the quality/breadth of humanities offerings at the traditional STEM colleges?

“The Times They Are a-Changin’” and many traditional STEM schools have realized the need for this change in the breadth and quality of their humanities offerings. See https://www.aacu.org/leap/what-is-a-liberal-education. We know that a liberally educated student makes a good engineer, but we also know we can only do so much in four years.
Due to heavy laboratory costs and years of capital development, the depth and breadth of engineering offerings at the well established engineering schools exceed that found at the smaller schools. Most humanities classes do not require these capital investments.

If your concern centers on point 3, take a closer look at traditional STEM schools and see how they address these issues. Look at recognition awarded by The National Academy of Engineering for innovation in education at https://www.nae.edu/Activities/Projects/Awards/GordonPrize/GordonWinners.aspx#tabs, You will find Dartmouth, WPI, Olin and Stanford among others. Dartmouth takes five years for their program, Olin is an individual, almost tutorial program which focuses on projects as a experiential learning vehicle, WPI largely pioneered the project approach with a twist into interdisciplinary projects and a thematic approach to a humanities minor. Brown has not won this particular prize yet, but offers a lot of flexibility in their program.

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13

@taliecharley This is just my personal opinion, but I found Swarthmore and Dartmouth to be very different from each other when I visited. For reference, my cousin is a Dartmouth alum (of the Thayer engineering program), whereas I will be attending Swarthmore next year. Obviously, both are great schools, but the culture at each place is very different. I found Dartmouth to be more preppy/outdoorsy/sports-oriented than Swarthmore, which feels more like a monastic retreat. Swarthmore’s quiet and contemplative environment is ideal in my opinion, but would have been terrible for my cousin, who loved the vibrant and well-rounded social life offered at Dartmouth. Along the same lines, I’m looking forward to Swarthmore’s close proximity to Philadelphia, while Dartmouth is much more isolated geographically (which is a plus or minus depending on your preference). Amherst and Williams are similarly isolated, but Amherst benefits from a consortium (like Swarthmore), while Williams is truly in the middle of nowhere. Both Williams and Amherst have very strong athletic cultures (Swarthmore doesn’t). Also, if you visit Swarthmore, I would definitely recommend seeing Haverford, which is also in the Quaker consortium. It is a charming and tiny liberal arts school with a sporty, engaged and vibrant student body. I believe that it has a few different engineering program options (https://www.haverford.edu/engineering). Hope this helps, and best of luck to your son!

14

Not a lot engineering going on at LACs.

15

Engineering aside, I would agree that Swarthmore is culturally the opposite of Dartmouth.
Some others in the similar to Dartmouth category would be Colgate, Hamilton, Bowdoin.

16

How about Bucknell? It checks the preppy, engineering-but-LAC, rural, and athletic boxes.

17

If he liked Tufts, I’d keep Rochester in play. I see a lot of similarities at least in how the campuses feel.

18

If you go to Middlebury, definitely pop up to see UVM as it is only an hour or so away and has more engineering options than most LACs but is much smaller than most state flagships.

19

Wow, thanks so much everyone! Lots to think about, and we will consider all. These suggestions and comments are all going to him, and very appreciated.
@gracecs Noted about Swarthmore, I wanted him to look there because sister goes to Lehigh and its convenient for me, and he doesn’t need to commit to engineering or not! Sounds like it’s not for him tho, so thanks.
@retiredfarmer Will think more about/look at “tech schools”-- issue is not one of my outdated notion (I don’t think)-- rather he says he “likes” engineering and science, but may not want to pursue, and/or may not want to go on to a career in those areas-- he may also major in Spanish, or something else in the humanities. For example, he is not at all troubled by the 5 year path to accreditation at Dartmouth. Just wants to study engineering and math because he enjoys it. (Yes, I know this is not a casual path for anyone but we think he can do the work). We did read about (and may visit) Cal Poly for its hands on, experiential approach. Colorado School of Mines has been discussed too.
@surfcity we parents agree on paper Bucknell seems like a match, except the campus is not very “outdoorsy”-- more preppy. Sister strongly considered and he visited but didn’t like it (though parents did!) Again, seeking a more nerdy, intellectual vibe.
He’s as likely to build or research or study something intently as he is to bike 100 miles or watch Netflix. (I am probably describing smart teenage boys, generally, I think).
Will check out Amherst and UVM.

20

I totally agree with visiting UVM when you visit Middlebury. Also agree he should consider Colgate and St Lawrence. If not seeing other mid Atlantic schools I’d scratch Swarthmore- engineering options available elsewhere.