<p>The Ivy League has always been the Sistine Chapel of universities. However, the Claremont Colleges have been jumping in the ranks, and quickly diminishing acceptance rates. Claremont McKenna College and Pomona College now have acceptance rates near 12%, with Pitzer College at 15.7%. I know that almost everyone agrees that the Ivies currently have more prestige, but lets say... in 20 years, which schools do you think will be more sought after?</p>
<p>I know this is like comparing apples to oranges because the Claremont Colleges are more closely related and they're liberal arts schools, but that's what I think gives them an advantage. The location and the liberal arts feel. Ivies are separated from states to state, where the Claremont Colleges are separated from acre to acre.</p>
<p>I know, it seems crazy to surpass the prestige of the Ivies. However, I was just curious to see what CCers believed would be the outcome in... say... 20 years.</p>
<p>Realistically, they’re too different to compare. In terms of prestige, however, LACs are far too small to gain any real strong national prestige. So I don’t see it happening. </p>
<p>The best LACs are Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, and Middlebury, with Pomona from the Claremont system. Harvey-Mudd, and Claremont-McKenna are also good. The ivy league schools aren’t prestigious in terms of being part of a system, but rather, because they’re some of the most oldest and most prestigious universities in the U.S.</p>
<p>So, no, I don’t think that it will. But I never held the ivy league, as a whole, to be the set of the most prestigious universities in the U.S. Penn, for example, is often confused with Penn state, and the lesser ivies have nowhere near the resources or reputation as the top ones do. Few, I think, would hold that Dartmouth or Brown were better universities than Stanford or MIT, even though the former two are members of the Ivy league, an the latter are not.</p>
<p>^Even a lot of people in Los Angeles never heard of Claremont Consortium. While their admit rates are low, keep in mind you are still talking about few thousands applicants out of a limited pool of people looking at LACs. The applicant pools for the Ivies are 5-10 times larger and are drawn from much larger pool of people looking at research universities.</p>
<p>I am a big fan of the Claremont colleges (D2 has applied to Mudd this year, and I think Pomona would have been a great fit for D1). But they are not in any danger now or in the next 20 years of knocking any top Ivy off the list in terms of prestige. Although I think they are fine schools, one reason their enrollment stats are dropping is because (compared to the east coast), there is a lack of good schools on the west coast. When we visited colleges on the west coast, there were less than 10 worth a stop. East coast, we could have visisted for weeks and not seen all the respectable schools there. So I think they get a lot of applications because they are among the few “warm sunny schools” that are not considered Southern or in the strip mall known as Florida. Also, they do not begin to have the endowment to keep up with the top Ivies.</p>
<p>I will admit that I have a personal bias and a geographical bias. (I’m an East Coast Ivy alumnus.) I will also state happily for the record that I have great respect for the Claremont Colleges.</p>
<p>I don’t think there’s any likelihood of the Claremont Colleges’ overtaking the Ivies any time soon in name recognition or general regard among non-scholars any time soon. I think so in part because many Ivies, but not all, have large graduate and professional schools, while the Claremont Graduate School (which I guess is now called the Claremont Graduate University) is much smaller. I also think so because the Ivies, especially the big Ivies (big in the sense of size, not in the sense of “prestige”) have been established for so long. Harvard is almost the Coca-Cola or Xerox or Kleenex of higher education; it’s almost the brand name that represents the product category. As the Pepsi/Kyocera/Puffs people can attest, it’s very hard to undo that kind of name recognition.</p>
<p>I’ll admit that in the last century Stanford was able to match the Ivies in terms of name recognition and general regard, which is no small feat, but even Stanford didn’t topple them.</p>
<p>Stanford wouldn’t be able to do that without its graduate programs (research/faculty → Silicon Valley, etc) first. Or lets look at it through another angle: HYP wouldn’t be what they are without their graduate programs.</p>
<p>This is my first post so don’t be offended if this is bad form. My question is related to options to the Ivy’s. My son is a pretty good football player, and we are located in New England so we have this area of the country covered. He is hoping to play for an Ivy but I’d like to see him look at a wider selection across the country. Does anyone know of a league out west or down south similar to the NESCAC/Ivy. He isn’t looking at D1 but could play at the D2 level, or 1A. Any help is much appreciated.</p>
<p>Not taking offense, FootballDad, but what you’ve just done here would certainly be considered hijacking this thread. College Confidential users generally would much prefer that you start your own thread to ask this question. May I suggest that you try posting it here: [Athletic</a> Recruits - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/athletic-recruits/?]Athletic”>Athletic Recruits - College Confidential Forums)</p>
<p>Quite a few people in higher education are not even sure that LACs will be able to maintain their current share of the 'market", let alone grow in size or prestige.</p>
<p>One related read is Liberal Arts at the Brink, by Victor E. Ferrall, the former president of Beloit.</p>
<p>The Claremonts’ falling admit rates are part of a nationwide trend among selective schools (including the Ivies). Basically, it comes down to supply and demand. The supply of seats at the most selective colleges is relatively flat, but the demand has steadily increased. </p>
<p>As the Generation Y population “echo boom” subsides, I expect to see acceptance rates go back up or at least level off. Maybe not, though, if the net costs at state universities keep rising relative to private school costs (after aid), or if demand from International students (especially Asians) keeps increasing.</p>
<p>I’m going to interpret Footballdad2’s question in the light least likely to “hijack” the thread, and that is to compare the Claremonts with the Ivy League in terms of their similarities as an athletic conference.</p>
<p>I’d say the similarities are almost nonexistent. The Claremonts very proximity and dependence on each other academically, duplicates itself on the field as well. They do not participate - for the most part - in round-robin play with each college fielding its own team. Instead, two or more schools will often combine teams to form one DIII level sport. For most of the major sports (football, basketball, soccer and tennis) Pomona and Pitzer play on one team while CMC, Mudd, and Scripps will play on another.</p>
<p>Comparing a consortium of LACs to loosely related research universities is pointless.</p>
<p>The prestige of the Ivy League schools is that they are the oldest universities in America, have a rich alumni history and have the largest endowments in the world. </p>
<p>More prestige doesn’t mean better education - it means public perception and brand recognition. </p>
<p>So regardless of how great the education at Pomona may become, it’s too small and lacks the history that the Ivy League does that is a pre-requisite for gaining international prestige.</p>
<p>The Claremont University Consortium is great with the five colleges and of course the graduate schools such as Keck and CGU. However, be advise, not all departments within the consortium is great. Notably is the CGU Teacher Education Department. Avoid it at all cost. Too expensive, “rigorous” training unlikely. No support by the Coordinator and staff. You better off signing up as a cast member for the movie Hunger Games. </p>
<p>Do not think about Claremont Consortium if you care that much about prestige. It will drive you crazy when you realize most people even in Los Angeles never heard of any of them.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t let the average American pick my beer, let alone my college. The fact that most of them haven’t heard of the Claremont schools counts for less than zero in my book. The fact is, you can get a great education at either the Claremont schools or the Ivies, but one is a better pick for some, the opposite a better pick others. Do well at either, and things will fall into place.</p>
<p>The Claremont schools are wonderful, but they’re going to need to surpass Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore before they start targeting the HYPS, yo.</p>