<p>Can someone please convince me that this isn't true? Or at least make me feel better about applying Early Decision to Wash U, which is a school I absolutely adore. I just can't help thinking, and I'd be the first one to admit it, that the names of the Ivies are just so damn appealing, to the fact that I would almost not go to the school I love so much and go to an Ivy League just so I could tell people that is where I am going. All of this is assuming I could get in of course, but as I'm applying early I'll never know. Does it really make THAT much of a difference to go Ivy League?<br>
For me, its brand name vs. school I can't find a flaw with. I know the obvious answer would be to go to the school I love, but there's just something nagging me that maybe I shouldn't apply early so I have that chance to go to an Ivy.</p>
<p>The Ivies aren't the best.</p>
<p>And the name brand will only get you that first job, but a school like WUSTL is comparable to Cornell, so you aren't going to be hurt there.</p>
<p>Go where you fit.</p>
<p>laured1,</p>
<p>If there's a nagging feeling about not giving yourself a chance for other schools, don't apply ED.</p>
<p>Laured--I think that many students feel the way you do--that Wash U. is a terrific school, but somehow it doesn't have the prestige of going to an Ivy League school. However, I think that unless you want to go into investment banking (where Wash U. is not generally well-represented), for almost any other career, a degree from Wash U. will be well-respected and will allow you to achieve anything you want. I also think that because the Wash U. student body and programs have been constantly improving, its graduates will be even more high achieving in the future and its overall reputation will continue to rise.</p>
<p>I personally think that Wash U. is an amazing school--it has wonderful and extremely flexible academic programs, caring administrators, a beautiful campus, good location, great dorms and food, and an extremely smart, interesting, fun student body. I can definitely see choosing Wash U. over any number of schools, including Ivies, for many reasons (for example, Cornell and Dartmouth are much more isolated, Columbia, Yale and U Penn are in the middle of the city, not on the outskirts, Cornell is much bigger etc.). I would encourage you to apply to the school that you like the best--at this level of school, you really cannot make a mistake.</p>
<p>Here's food for thought: Harvard is often criticized for not caring much about its undergrads (for caring too much about its grads). Many have even said that if you want a good undergrad experience, don't go to Harvard.</p>
<p>Just throwing that out there. =)</p>
<p>Very well put, midatlmom. </p>
<p>If you've visited the Ivy colleges you're interested in and didn't fall in love with any of them in the same way then maybe something is telling you that "fit" is more important to you than name recognition. You can be on these forums and read tales of students who have gone to Ivies and found they're not happy and transfer out (sometimes to another Ivy, but sometimes not.) And on the WashU forum, it's not hard to find students who have been accepted to Ivies but choose to attend WU instead, for various reasons, from merit aid to the more relaxed feel of the school. </p>
<p>Another strategy is to apply RD and do your best to make your genuine attraction and feeling of fit come through in your application. Then you can make a decision based on visiting schools as an accepted student, doing an overnight in a dorm, which can sometimes be the clincher.</p>
<p>If you like WashU go for it.</p>
<p>There's only 1 true profession where hard work can't overcome not having an Ivy League degree, and that's Investment Banking. </p>
<p>For everything else (e.g law, medicine), it's based on what you do with your time there as opposed to where you go.</p>
<p>That said, of course the Ivy League schools are the best represented at Ivy League professional schools--- but that's more of an indicator of the type of people (smart, driven) that get into Ivy League schools in the first place.</p>
<p>**To the last poster: If this OP is pretty decently qualified for an Ivy League school, you can bet WashU will waitlist him in the RD round for yield-protection.</p>
<p>That's not true. Washu certainly does not waitlist every Ivy-qualified applicant --- there are people I know who can vouch for that. There are students who post on the Washu forum, and one I know personally, who applied RD to WU and was accepted and also was accepted as an RD applicant to an Ivy and to two other top-20 colleges and chose Washu. I have no way of knowing what the method is behind WU's waitlist decisions --- it may depend on the program one is applying to or the particular high school one is applying from (and patterns that have been established there) or it may depend on ability to pay or on the applicant's gender. There's no reason for WU to strive for "yield protection" since isn't counted in rankings and is the kind of "talking point" that comes up only, and I mean only, on CC. There definitely is a pattern of waitlisting due to lack of interest --- not unlike at Penn --- but I think it's more in support of the goal of having students on campus who want to be there and don't transfer out.</p>
<p>The best school to go to is the school that best suits your needs and wants in your college experience.</p>
<p>Ivy Leagues aren't for everyone (not for me, at least), and I know that I just won't have as fulfilling an experience if I go to one. That's why I'm applying to schools like Reed and U. Chicago instead. I adamantly believe that those schools better suit my needs of a great intellectual, life-of-the-mind atmosphere.</p>
<p>Just because a college is more selective doesn't mean that it's better. They're so selective because too many people haven't done their research to scout out schools that will better suit their needs, and so they just apply to the Ivys, thinking that those schools are the best because they are at the top of the rankings.</p>
<p>But trust me, the rankings are a bunch of hooey.</p>
<p>I hope you don't fall in line with the rest of the sheep. I hope you research all your options thoroughly and apply to schools that will fit you.</p>
<p>The Ivy Leagues, as a whole, are the best 8 schools in the country. There isn't a group of 8 schools that are just as good.</p>
<p>The non-Ivy best 8 schools would be Stanford, MIT, Cal Tech, Duke, Northwestern, University of Chicago, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins - pretty good and all elite schools, but they place slightly worse and attract slightly weaker students on average than the Ivies.</p>
<p>"Wash U, which is a school I absolutely adore."</p>
<p>You have answered your own question. You should go where you "can see yourself for the next 4 years."</p>
<p>You mean: The best non-Ivy eight schools, *in my opinon * would be...... In my opinion, depending on your major, Washu rivals or betters some on your list of eight.</p>
<p>Amen to that, dchow.</p>
<p>WUSTL has really become popular. I have a co-worker that is sending his kid there. He chose it over Stanford, Berkeley and Rice. They gave him the best financial aid package.</p>
<p>Here's another way of thinking about it: the Ivy League is simply a name that originated as a sports conference between 8 institutions on the East Coast, but soon became a term to refer to an elite set of colleges that are reputedly "the best." But don't think of it as a bundle like that. Each and every school is different, with no affiliation to the other schools other than its Ivy League name. Each has a different founding, a different history, a different offering. There's nothing that says they are necessarily "the best." They could easily incorporate, say, Penn State into the Ivy League (not that they would, since it's public), but that doesn't necessarily mean it's "the best." They are certainly very good institutions. But they are individual schools that have many peers not in their exclusive league. If you have difficulty thinking of it this way, just look at rankings: there are plenty of rankings out there in which many universities beat out quite a few of the Ivy Leagues -- Stanford, MIT, WUStL, Duke, Berkeley, U Chicago, U Michigan, JHU, etc.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The non-Ivy best 8 schools would be Stanford, MIT, Cal Tech, Duke, Northwestern, University of Chicago, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins - pretty good and all elite schools, but they place slightly worse and attract slightly weaker students on average than the Ivies.
[/quote]
Stanford and MIT placing worse and attracting slightly weaker students on average (compared to ivies)?</p>
<p>uh huh.</p>
<p>laured, i visited WashU and absolutely loved it. The dorms were great, the campus was nice, the students were interesting. But in the end, I chose Harvard. Maybe partially it was because of name recognition, but I also felt that while WashU is a great place, Harvard is more for me. And I don't regret that decision at all.</p>
<p>For you, this may be the inverse. While the Ivy League is great and all, WashU isn't that far behind. You really won't be missing out on much by choosing that school, and you'll be gaining a lot, everything you adore about it. </p>
<p>But as another poster said, if you feel like you may be losing out by applying early, then just apply regular and visit some schools. Maybe some of them will surprise you and maybe WashU will prove to be the best place for you.</p>
<p>I had a thread recently where I talked about my regrets from the college search process (I'm a rising second-year at one of WashU's peer schools in the midwest and at a school that was also my first choice, so I empathize with you).</p>
<p>In short, when I had my college list as a rising senior, I had four ivies on it. If I were to make my college list now, it would have zero ivies on it. This is not because I don't pay any attention to rankings, perceptions, etc. (I do, even if just a little), but because none of the Ivies really had the kind of atmosphere, environment, or even campus that I wanted.</p>
<p>If I had admission to all the ivies and WashU, I think I might choose WashU. WashU has excellent students, great research opportunities, and a city that is attached to the school, yet doesn't interfere with the campus.</p>
<p>If you feel right at WashU and you think you'll be very happy there, then you will be in a good position to earn high grades, make friends, and become involved with activities that are important to you. Those experiences will serve you well when it comes time to look for a job or apply to grad school, and they will help you focus yourself personally and professionally and be happy with the person you are.</p>
<p>
[quote]
The Ivy Leagues, as a whole, are the best 8 schools in the country. There isn't a group of 8 schools that are just as good.</p>
<p>The non-Ivy best 8 schools would be Stanford, MIT, Cal Tech, Duke, Northwestern, University of Chicago, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins - pretty good and all elite schools, but they place slightly worse and attract slightly weaker students on average than the Ivies.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>LOL! Stanford, MIT and Caltech are not even on the same level as lower Ivies.</p>
<p>Does Duke admit slightly worse students than, let's say Cornell ? This is very surprising for me.</p>
<p>he said "as a whole", not individually.
Compare the 8 Ivies vs the non-ivies he mentioned.
Individually, some "non-ivies" may be on par with the upper-Ivies, but as a whole package, the Ivies get an upperhand in terms of prestige.</p>
<p>But yea, saying that they attract "weaker student" is a pretty blunt statement to make.</p>