Hello all,
I am a rising senior looking to apply to colleges this fall. I have already decided on my match and safety schools. I live in NC and would like to major in biomedical engineering. My matches/safetys are UNC and NC State, which have a joint program.
Now I am deciding on where else to apply, particularly for reach schools. My stats are very good (I have another post containing all of them, but top 5%, 34ACT, 3.98UW GPA, lots of leadership and activities). I don’t know what the best decision would be:
-apply to one Ivy League (Yale is my current top pick, but I would have to choose the best possible school to apply to) and one top-tier school such as Duke or Vanderbilt
-apply to another match school (Georgia Tech, Clemson) and a top-tier or Ivy
-save up my money and apply to several Ivys
My parents are willing to pay for four college application fees. I am fairly sure that if I applied to several Ivys or top-tier schools, I would be accepted into at least one. The question then is of financial aid. My family income is around $150k, though my parents are divorced and that is counting my biological parents only. Schools like Yale and Harvard promise affordability if accepted, but how realistic is this? And if it is less affordable, how much does the value of an Ivy League or higher level education compare to that of a state school, even if I have to take on student loans?
I apologize if this was worded in a confusing manner, but basically my question is: what is the best strategy for choosing which colleges to apply to, taking into consideration the value and cost?
Thanks in advance!
Divorced parents could make financial aid difficult. Net price calculators may be less accurate. To reduce the chance of overly optimistic estimates, include all of the income and assets of both parents and their new spouses (if any) when using the net price calculators, unless the college states that it uses custodial parent only or FAFSA only.
The income from both custodial and NCPs will be used. Your income number for their FA calculation will be higher. The affordability is in the eyes of the school. That being said an income of (just) $150K is up there. Some people on the forums will say the Ivies are worth it no matter what, some will say up to the direct loans amounts ($27K for you). IMO it might be worth it if you wanted to go into an industry which recruits based on prestige (like IB) but otherwise UNC will open all the same doors.
$150K is right in the middle of the donut hole, so the ivies may be less affordable than an in-state school. I know the applicatin fees can add up quickly. But to limit your chances at the reach schools by saving just a few hundred dollars is not a wise move in my opinion, especially given your parents’ income.
For IB, UNC Kenan-Flagler would open up the same doors; I’d be surprised if, as an NC resident, you got into an Ivy but not Kenan-Flagler direct admit.
For a family with $150K in income, only one child, no home equity, and $75K in cash savings, Columbia would offer over $41K in grant aid, according to my estimate from the College Board net price calculator. That would leave a net price of about $29K, which is competitive with some state universities’ sticker prices for state residents … but more than the UNC-CH sticker price.
Your mileage may vary (maybe significantly, if you are adding in another income from a non-custodial parent).
No need to draw artificial lines between “Ivy Leagues” and “other top-tier schools” The Ivy League is just an athletic conference; you can decide where to apply independent of that circle drawn around the programs. So apply to the schools that appeal to you because of what they offer. Duke has an excellent biomedical engineering program, from what I’ve heard.
If you need financial aid to make it work, I don’t see the value in applying to OOS publics like Georgia Tech and Clemson. They’re great schools with good biomedical engineering programs, but they’re unlikely to give you much financial aid. Yale, Duke, and Vanderbilt, on the other hand, meet 100% of your family’s financial need.
I think applying to 2-4 reaches that offer strong financial aid is probably a good bet. hzha02004 is right - you’ll be spending a couple hundred dollars more to potentially save tens of thousands of dollars.
I think Vanderbilt said in its information session some years ago that they only take the custodial parent (and their spouse if remarried) into consideration. Check on their website.
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My parents are willing to pay for four college application fees. I am fairly sure that if I applied to several Ivys or top-tier schools, I would be accepted into at least one.
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You can’t expect that.
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The question then is of financial aid. My family income is around $150k, though my parents are divorced and that is counting my biological parents only.
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You can’t just count the bio parents’ income at most of these schools. Most of those top schools will look at ALL …parents and step parents incomes and assets. How much does each HOUSEHOLD earn?
How much will each bio parent contribute towards college?
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Schools like Yale and Harvard promise affordability if accepted, but how realistic is this?
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that’s a ridiculous promise. Your two parents’ households may have large incomes…and yet each household may feel that it can only afford to contribute a small amount.
As it is…your parents are already showing a side of financial concern by limiting paying for apps for 4 schools (is that 2 apps will be paid for by each parent??)
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And if it is less affordable, how much does the value of an Ivy League or higher level education compare to that of a state school, even if I have to take on student loans?
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You can borrow $5500…not much. It’s less likely that one side of your family is going to cosign add’l loans because of the “unfair risk.” And, most parents won’t cosign anyway.
But to answer your Q…there are many excellent BioMedE programs…no need to go to an Ivy.
In a different thread, it was noted that colleges with good financial aid without using the non-custodial parent information are Chicago, Albright, and (usually) Vanderbilt. (Some public schools may also fit into this category only for their in-state students.)
Thanks everyone for the replies! We’ve decided I can apply to five schools. My current choices are
UNC
NC state
Duke
Columbia
Yale
Financial aid is very tricky to calculate with divorced parents and I’m not sure of my father’s finances (he is not very cooperative with anything regarding money and does not plan to support me in college financially, though I know I still have to count him. I estimate he makes about $130,000 based on child support from a few years back).
My mom will be in graduate school when I apply and I have a younger sibling and a step-sibling in college. My dad is also remarried and I have a younger step brother. My mom’s household makes about $80k. I am still not sure how to use the online calculators so hopefully this can give a rough idea to those more familiar with FA.
Do you think that applying to these schools is a good choice? I could also choose to apply to another school such as Vanderbilt or Johns Hopkins instead of UNC. I don’t know if three ‘choice’ schools is sufficient to give a good chance of acceptance and good FA. I could also opt to save up more money and apply to a sixth school.
If he will be uncooperative with filling in financial aid forms, you may want to remove schools where you need financial aid which requires the the CSS Profile non-custodial parent form. Without it, you will get no financial aid from those schools.
When using the net price calculator at schools that require non-custodial parent information (if he will even be cooperative on the forms), include the $80,000 from your mother’s household, the $130,000 from your father, and whatever his new spouse earns for total income (i.e. $210,000 or higher, possibly significantly higher). However, many schools’ net price calculators are less accurate for divorced parent situations.
Of your five schools:
NCSU: FAFSA only (i.e. non-custodial parent information not used)
UNC-CH: FAFSA and CSS Profile (web site does seem to say whether non-custodial parent information is required; College Board web site says not required)
Duke, Columbia, Yale: FAFSA and CSS Profile (non-custodial parent information is required)
If Duke, Columbia, and Yale are not affordable at list price (if your father will not cooperate on the forms), or with financial aid estimated for the $210,000 or higher income of your parents and new spouses, then you may want to drop them from your list (unless you want to try for Duke’s Robertson scholarship or some such) and replace them with other schools.
Can you definitely afford UNC-CH and NCSU?
You really do need to use those online NPCs then discuss the estimates with your mom.
The hardest part of using them is getting the information. Maybe your mom would rather input it herself.
Based on what you’ve shared, getting into at least one of Yale/Columbia/Duke at an affordable net price may be very unlikely. With an income of $210K or more, your EFC may be at least $40K/year (maybe all the way up to the sticker price). How would that work if your mom will be in grad school and your father won’t contribute?
Especially if there is any doubt about affording UNC-CH/NCSU, you should consider less selective colleges that offer big merit scholarships for your stats. http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/
If you’re very confident that UNC-CH or NCSU will work out, then it won’t hurt to aim for Duke and the Robertson scholarship. Vanderbilt might be a more realistic reach (for admission + aid) than Yale or Columbia.
So you’re saying that private schools (except Vanderbilt) will be counting all four of my parents towards my expected contribution, despite the fact that they are two different households with their own separate expenses. That doesn’t seem to be fair, that double the income is counted. Will it affect this any, that there are three dependent children and step-children overall and that my mom will be in school? And that each household has their own bills to pay, expenses to manage? There’s no way, even if my dad was willing to pay, that both families combined could afford $40k+ a year.
Yes, they count all the income. Yes they look at family sizes. Your mom being in school may not be counted. I’m glad you’re looking into this now. Make sure you have a safety you can afford and would be happy to attend.