I have seen those high paying positions, but not for summer biology research. I know kids with biology majors from different Ivy League schools, and none of them had these positions.
I believe those positions exist even though I never saw them. I just don’t think they are common place for biology.
Totally agree. And my experience is that some of those highly paid internships have already been informally filled via connections (have experience with this on both sides of the equation).
I think we need to focus a little less on this kid being a poorly paid bio major. It is entirely possible that his interests/major may change, especially if he goes into freshman year understanding the importance of making money. If this prospect appeals to him, Yale will have more opportunities. If he has no interest in prioritizing making money then that’s a different scenario.
Pitt’s offer is merit money, not need based aid. The Ivies, do not match merit money (pretty much every one at Yale would be eligible for merit at schools that give it)
And Dartmouth grads, UVa grads, and members of the DKE fraternity (the college private social clubs in NYC have been amalgamating or sharing membership privileges).
Yes.
Not open to Pitt grads.
(OP’s son is not considering Dartmouth or UVA as part of his dilemma.)
If I understand correctly the expected parent contribution for Yale is $20,000 per year and the child"s is $7000 per year? The parents seem to be saying they will give him $5000 upfront and are willing to cosign loans. It does not seem they are expecting him to shoulder $60000 in loans on his own (which would be way above any recommendations for a student). He could potentially bring down some of his expected contribution by working summers and during the school year. I would leave the decision up to him.
It is my understanding that the family is paying $5000 per year, and the student is paying $15,000 per year. The EFC is $20,000.
At the end of the 4 years the parents will have paid a total of $20,000. The student will be required to pay back $60,000.
I agree that this is too much money and not recommended. I have a hard time comprehending how a full ride to Pitt (and all the perks that come with a full ride) would be a poor choice.
Yes, Yale is one of the finest schools out there…but to me it’s not affordable for this family.
I think it’s worth the family really drilling down on the true costs of the Ivies.
Folks here are rightly concerned about the prospect of 60k in debt. Personally, I don’t think it’s a problem. But I also think it’s unlikely to be that high.
It’s reasonable to expect summer earnings of 5k to 20k+, with the top end of that range being less common. Odds of better opportunities are higher at the Ivies than at Pitt. Assuming an average net of 5k over 4 summers is probably safe. That’d bring total debt to 40k.
If the family qualifies for the American opportunity tax credit, that’d be up to 2500/year. Total debt 30k.
As BK squared mentioned, true costs at the Ivies are likely lower than the cost used to calculate aid. There is a lot of fluff in the personal expenses, travel, books, that families can cut. Conservatively, say 1k/year savings. Total debt 26k.
Many students work during the school year. 1-2k earnings is reasonable to expect. Say 1k. Total debt now 22k.
There are other ways to shave into that 22k but even with those fairly conservative assumptions, I think most would agree a debt burden of 20-25k for a Penn or Yale grad isn’t overwhelming.
Now, relying on earnings to replace borrowing does not reduce the cost difference between Pitt and Ivies. It is no small matter for a kid to work summers to pay for school rather than fun or savings. But that is a choice the kid can make, and I don’t think many would say it’s a bad long term decision.
Everything is crazily expensive these days. Inflation. Look at what people are earning and compare college annual tuition as a % of annual salary with when you went to college.
My STEM professor wife said “Yale, no question. Grad schools will prefer the Ivy grad.” She recruits for STEM PhD students. Vast majority apply from Asia. Assistant professor positions will also favor the Ivy grad.
Thank you, thank you!!! How many of us are the same people we were at 17? Why are we looking at college through the lens of glorified trade school (I have kids who went to co-op tech after high school, became plumbers and electricians and are making great money- for little cash outlay).
Everyone has a story, a kid or a friend of a kid to support their position.
My kid attended an Ivy going to do STEM and graduated as a religion major (got hooked on her freshman seminar), who now does cybersecurity (who would have thought). But I had no problem with her getting an education in what ever she was interested in pursuing- because when she graduated there was going to be 45 years between graduation and retirement (plenty of jobs , career changes out there to think about).
At the end of the day, she got an excellent education, some ride or die for friends, and gives back as part of the alumni network. She had a job offer after graduation, which she turned down to teach young children how to read (took a gap year after graduating college).
She never went there with the mindset of going into IB/MC (she has never been one to chase a dollar) although she has many friends who went that route (she says HBS loves us as most of them are HBS grads). Many said while the money is great, they were not happy and went on to do other things.
One of her best friends was a sociology major who is now global VP of marketing at a major firm, another was a creative writing major who had some really great jobs and now works at FB (lots of friends at FB/Google who are constantly reaching out to her to come work with them). Plenty of friends who are doctors, lawyers, teachers, politicians, and working non-profits. I don’t think any of them have regretted their education.
I am of the mindset that you cannot always equate wealth in terms of dollars and cents (left corporate money to work with kids) along with your gift will make room for you.
I think the family needs to think about the +/- of every situation. They can look at the financial piece from the perspective of eating an elephant- one bite at a time. Year 1: parents, paying 5, student borrowing $5.5, is there an after school or summer job (what does the affordability story look like?). there will be tax credits that can be applied to the cost down the line, summer jobs, internships, etc.
Nothing for nothing, there are plenty of students who have attended schools that are not Yale with more than 60K of debt (especially those who are part of the middle class squeeze- too much $$ for financial aid and not enough to comfortably write a check anywhere).
Biology majors have lots of options when they graduate. For example, the bio major may be helpful in landing him/her a variety of jobs with high earnings potential at a pharmaceutical company.
How high the pay is depends on how the degree is used and what graduate degree it’s paired with - if any.
I think it’s a problem for 2 reasons:
The family will likely not be able to help with payments
The student wants to go into medical research
If the true cost of the loan is $25,000, that’s a different discussion.
Going into medical research these days normally requires an MD/PhD.
Yes…he won’t be able to do this with an undergraduate degree in biology. He can get a job as a research assistant.
He can also get a job as a teacher (starting salary 60k). I know kids who graduated college for the 2-year stint at TFA, went on to Law, med and grad programs. Teaching fellows will pay for grad school (shortage of science teachers). kid will not be doomed to be a 37k/year researcher unless that is what they want to do
Some stayed became teacher (now administrators- Principals in NYC start with 160K for their 185 days)
Starting salaries in certain locations can be higher than $60,000 a year…coming in through TFA or Teaching Fellows. I know many who come through this route and actually save some money before heading out to grad school. It’s not easy, and it’s not for everyone…but it is an option.
Never did I say I wouldn’t help with payments. I just don’t want to promise a certain amount. I do plan on making at least interest payments on his loans while he is in school. But anything can happen. It’s actually more likely that I can help than not. If asked today my son would say medical research but he’s interested in so many things that it could change. He wants to go to school open minded and he’s not married to Biology.
I apologize- I misunderstood.
I guess I am of the belief that students such as your son can thrive at a school like Pitt. This does not mean that giving up Yale will be easy, as it’s an amazing school.
I wish you the best!!