Thank you it really is a tough decision.
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You base your position upon an assumed guaranteed outcome, $20k in parental contribution plus $60k in student debt vs $0. When we look at big decisions like this, we have to consider the probabilities and resultant outcomes of either path. First, as OP wrote upthread, Pitt is not actually $0 cost. The award for Pitt is only for tuition, room and board (see post #64). Looking at Pittās website the remaining COA between fees, books and personal expenses is another $4,000+. EFCās calculated for Ivies are inclusive of these expenses, so the differential is reduced by $16k+. Now on the Ivy side of the ledger, any downside financial risk beyond the $20k EFC is covered because the award is completely need based. If the familyās income falls below $75k, at least Yale essentially provides a free ride, barring abnormally high family assets. There is no GPA risk to the cost. What are the probabilities that the studentās interests will change? Sounds like this kid has a variety of interests so this is not unlikely. Maybe this kid, while sticking with life sciences, wants to work in biotech, pharmaceutical, even management consulting, or the kid wants to go the poli sci route or maybe decides neuroscience is his thing ā what are the relative opportunities Yale vs Pitt, not just earnings after college but academic experience? Now letās look at the Pitt side of the ledger, what if his GPA drops below 3.0 for whatever reason. The probabilities may be low, but the consequence is severe as his cost just went up $45k per year. If he changes interests or career direction, how strong is Pitt? What are the chances he picks up summer and school year work to whittle down the debt needed for Yale? Personally, I worked 10-12 hours a week in the dining halls and signed up to be a psych experiment guinea pig for $25 a pop once or twice a week. Son has a job taking notes for hearing/visually impaired students. While he was fortunate enough to get an MC and IB internship his summers, he also had offers to work for a real estate developer, a golf course management company and two data analytics company. @politeperson estimation is pretty realistic in #328. Not sure if he would have had the same options if he went to our flagship.
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There is a lot to consider- I totally understand and wish this family the best. It really boils down to whether Yale will be of any hardship to this family. How do we define āhardship?ā
Not an easy decision.
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I really do think the Ivies are going to provide more opportunities and freedom to explore different paths. Some of this will come just from conversations in the dining halls, but itāll also be easier to dabble in different disciplines in meaningful ways at the Ivies. I am a big fan of Pitt, donāt get me wrong. But for a curious and motivated student who has strong interests but is open to the whole academic world, itās just very hard to match what the Ivies can do. If your son decides Pitt feels more like him, thatās important and I wouldnāt ignore fit. But if what youāre asking is whether Columbia is worth 20k more for a student like your son, with the very small risk of 60k in debt and the more likely outcome <25k in debtā¦personally I think thereās no question the answer is yes, if thatās what feels right to him. Heāll be successful anywhere, but those Ivy admissions folks are pretty focused on admitting kids who can take advantage of all the resources their schools direct at undergrads.
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Define plenty. Thereās not plenty. Unless plenty is a small percentage.
Personally, Iād support you whichever way you choose. Itās mainly important to understand the big picture.
Iāve seen students at school choose both directions too (with varying schools, but similar in comparison). FWIW, itās worked out great regardless of which way they chose. My guess is it will normally work out great whichever way a student chooses as kids who make it this far continue to do well wherever they land.
That said, if the choice were between a lower level college and a higher level one itās not the same, and many times those who have chosen free over a moderate payment (or debt) have regretted it. A 1000 SAT average school with few students having 1400+ is just not the same as one where the average is 1300+ where many students have 1400+. Students can be successful from these lower level schools(!), but the opportunities and paths available to them are far fewer. They choose what is there rather than having oodles of choices to choose from.
AND, Iāve never heard a student come back with high debt from any undergrad who has been happy about it. Theyāve all (so far) told me they wished theyād chosen differently, because they have peers and co-workers without debt who chose that different path. Some debt, fine, esp if it meant not going to college or going from a low level to appropriate level. High debt - havenāt seen it. High probably starts mid 5 digits and goes higher.
Your family needs to decide what is right for you based upon what you feel is important in options. No one here can do that for you. We can offer best wishes though!
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To your point I went to Syracuse for journalismā¦elite especially at that time. Made my dad pay. Didnāt give him a choice. Ten years later I realized I made a mistake and should have saved him $30k (a lot in the mid 80s) and went to my 2nd choice.
Every family is different. And we donāt know what one will think. But it may be different in 20 years than it is today. I get the allure if the Ivy. And Yale is not any Ivy.
If I was 18 Iām going. Donāt know any better.
At 40 and 50, I donāt know.
I do know 10k internships are likely not common and many kids are working unpaid with a Yale stipend. Summer shouldnāt be a reason one way or another to choose the school.
https://cdn.ocs.yale.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/77/2020/05/Final-Summer-2019-Report.pdf
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Agree about summer earnings for bio majors. My daughter and her ivy classmates made $4-6k as summer researchers last year. We donāt know any natural science majors who made $10k for summer research, including friends at Brown and Yale.
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Choice of undergraduate institution is, for good reason, a sensitive topic. Iām not surprised to see a lot of motivated reasoning from the parents posting in this thread. Nobody is more disappointed that IBs and top MC firms donāt recruit on campus at Pitt than me! I think they shouldāthey will find good employees. But they donāt. It isnāt fair and thereās nothing that will change that in at least the next ten years.
OPās child has Yale for a bargain price. The opportunities from that specific ivy are better on average than one would get from Pitt. Note, that I donāt think this is true of all selective private schools! I canāt see the value in paying a premium over Pitt for NYU, Northeastern, or Tulane. And there are other good reasons to not attend an Ivy. I have enough friends who have attended those sorts of schools to know that there is a lot of nonsense and baggage that Ivy students have to shoulder.
The argument in this thread is sillyālots of parents who didnāt send their kids to Pitt or Yale arguing about the merits of either one. Parents flexing that their child turned down a selective private school AND a full ride from Pitt for school X. I donāt know very much about the schools I didnāt choose to attend, and neither do most people on this site.
Done w/ this thread. CC discourse has melted my brain. I will respond to DMs about Pitt if anyone has questions.
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No, not actual data. 
āTwo totally different college experiences. Pitt might be the right choice here but letās not pretend that itās on the same playing field as a degree from Yale.ā
I think most posters would agree, but once you bring in major, costs, the playing field sort of evens out. Why is why the OP created the thread, if Yale was such an overwhelming choice, the OP would be sending in the deposit. Money levels most advantages that colleges have, even prestige, which is why itās used a lot.
āI donāt know very much about the schools I didnāt choose to attend, and neither do most people on this site.ā
Sure, but I think the idea is that there are general points in these threads regarding choosing between a college like Pitt and Yale. Probably not great to see your alma mater get denigrated like this though.
Some parents or kids will never see a public school like Pitt as good enough if they have Ivy/higher prestige options . That is nothing new. Many very high stats kids do not apply to privates but the ones that do will many times pick the higher ranked option. Human nature. Cost remains a factor for most families. Yale or Penn at less than the cost of many instate schools these days seems appealing since the son made the effort to apply. Iām a Pitt grad so think thatās a great option too if the son wants to go with less money out of pocket. Since the parents were willing to put money into his more expensive options originally, I would let the son decide.
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I am glad you attached this report. Agree 100% not every kid who wants a $10k internship with Goldman, McKenzie, or Google will get one. Most who apply donāt. So foolish to count on this source and amount of summer income. On the other hand, about 30% got jobs in the higher paying sectors, like finance, consulting, software development, engineering and law. Moreover take a look at P4 in Funding where Yale is funding 31.7% of the respondents. Yale has made a big push in āequalizingā the opportunity for enriching summer experiences of students across all SES groups. The aid given to students for summer programs, international and domestic, including stipends for working for underpaying non profits and NGOās, is on top of regular aid. See for example the Summer Experience Award https://ocs.yale.edu/channels/summer-experience-award/, the International Study Award https://isa.yale.edu/ and the Yale Summer Study Abroad program https://studyabroad.yale.edu/paying-study-abroad/yale-summer-session-programs#toc2. Aid for these programs is given to all FA students who apply and participate.
This is the type of extra support you can get with a well funded private. Will it make a dent on debt, maybe, maybe not. Will this create opportunities you will not find with a public, undoubtedly. Even if publics have similar programs, it is likely limited and/or competitive. These are not, although there are separate merit based funded summer programs at Yale as well.
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Aounds like u all dont want whats best for the child. I smell jealousy. I just think he should do whats best for his education and future regardles sof what u all think.
We had to deal with some similar issues in 2014 when our son was admitted to Princeton on a long shot as part of early action.
We are internationals and had expected him to go one of the top universities in Canada (where he has dual citizenship).
Princeton (with cost of attendance about 45k) required some careful soul searching. We come from a country where no-one spends that kind of money on college had another child in high school to think about.
There were a number where of steps along the way:
- First we had to decide whether he would take a position in the shortlist process for a prestigious Canadian scholarship which would have required him to commit to going to Canada if he participated. We decided (with some angst) to say no to the shortlist and finalist process.
Next he was shortlisted for our countryās Robertson scholarship to Duke with the same requirement - if he participated in the shortlist selection weekend he needed to commit to accepting. This was even harder to decide. We talked to some US friends (one a Harvard grad recommended that we turn down the Robertson option, having made had a similar decision himself 20 years earlier to turn down a Morehead-Cain to go to Harvard.)
We decided that for our family a Robertson would be too hard to turn down and he participated in the final selection process for the Robertson.
He was not offered a Robertson so that left us with Princeton. In the meantime he was offered a 10k per annum scholarship at UBC (which is significant with tuition being about 6k p.a.)
He went to Princeton and it did indeed prove to be a very special experience and education. His passion was tech and entrepreneurship and he did indeed get the 15k internships and a very good job on graduation - but we didnāt know this at the time we committed.
I think we would still feel fine about the decision even if he hadnāt gone into such a well remunerated area. I think a HYP graduate has the connections and options to be able to pay off 60k debt without restricting life too much even if it influences decisions .
Hard decision - best wishes for coming to a decision that works for your family.
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I think most have said that. People are pointing out the positives and pitfalls. Yes people have opinions but everyone wants this prospective student to make his best decision. So I disagree with the comment and the negativity is unnecessary. Through the thread people are showing the pros and cons in both directions. They are also focused on major abd not just saying you are guaranteed an elite internship or position.
By now Iām sure the mom and son have plenty tu of perspective but it is a fascinating topic and I, for one, have learned a lot from reading these.
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Iām going to go out on a limb and say that debt is worth it. Itās true, a name isnāt worth going into debt, but these top schools offer more than just a name. The academic community is in a league of its own. Given his interests and criteria, Iād go for Penn.
Even if the son stays with biology, which I doubt, heāll have paying summer internships, that cuts the loans in half. I see the experience of the residential college at Yale as a far different experience.
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I think everyone is aware - all things being equal, Yale is the choice 98 of 100 people would make. Itās just the money thing.
My son - great student - got into great schools. Turned down Purdue engineering for a lesser school (Bama). Struggled for 1.5 years but still has a 3.7. Hit a wall this semester - if he gets Cs heāll be lucky.
My point is - all this planning - even with kids busting tail, everything has to work perfectly.
Itās all a crapshoot - including this decisionā¦even for the best and brightest.
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This is a great thread and I learned a lot regarding internships and career choices from first-hand accounts. However, only the family knows all their circumstances and can make the right choice taking everything into account. For instance, it was said that āmy son has knee issues and walking is very difficultā. Is this important for their situation, does that mean unforeseen medical bills, we donāt know. All the good advice here was given based on hypotheticals about the kid and the family.