Yes, I have one child who attended a school that meets full need. We found the NPC to be accurate (for us).
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First congrats on your sonās acceptances. What great outcomes.
We are comparing $20k a year vs $0, Yale vs Pitt. But is it really $0 at Pitt? Yale calculates EFC based on the total cost of attendance, tuition, room, board, fees, books and personal expenses (about $3,700 is budgeted for the last 2). What does free ride mean? If you are still responsible for personal expenses at Pitt, it is really $20k vs $3,700, a $16.3k differential. What else does the Pitt award cover or not cover to compare apples to apples? I am surprised Yale came back with a greater EFC than Penn. HYP are usually the most generous, and I know you can shop the Penn award with Yale.
Different people put different values on educational investment and different expectations of returns. While Pitt is a fine school, the experience he will likely get there will be markedly different than Yale, Columbia or Penn. Again your money and your views on what is best for your son and family. Does you son have a strong preference? Will he always wonder, āwhat ifā if he doesnāt go to Yale, Columbia or Penn or will he not care?
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I am not convinced that for a biology degree, there will be a huge difference in Yale versus a full ride (with a lot of perks) at Pitt. I have seen the students who attend Pitt on a full ride. They are Ivy caliber students, often struggling to make the same decision as this family.
My daughter is finishing up a gap year program with a biology degree from a very strong state school (she turned down full tuition to Pitt). Her close friend in this program attended a HYP school, also a biology major.
Guess what? They both landed in the exact same same place following graduation. They also became good friends and pretty much had similar biology experiences during undergrad. I will go out on a limb and say that my daughter may have even had more.
I am not under estimating the value of an Ivy League education, but for this particular student it is not required for success.
Who is paying this loan following graduation, and will there be hardship (ability to move away and afford rent, retirement etc)?
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If opting for the free ride, go with Pitt. Itās better than Fordham or UDel for the field of interest.
Fordham is way better than UDel, which I would discard immediately.
Congratulations on your wonderful options. I am actually not totally averse to incurring a cumulative debt load of 80k for the schools that accepted your son, albeit at full tuition. But he is lucky to have full rides at a couple of great places, and there is a lot to be said for graduating debt-free.
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Hi, Thanks for your input. Pitt is tuition and room and board. Udel would give him tuition, room and board, a book allowance and a 2500 educational experience grant and Fordham is offering tuition, room and board and a 20,000 stipend over the 4 years. Before Covid we were able to tour Penn and Columbia and he loved both. He loves the idea that these schools want you to try new thing and explore before you decide on a major. Like I said he loves biology and the idea of doing medical research but he also loves other things and excels in a lot. He is so torn right now. Such difficult decision.
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For undergrad, Iād go with a free ride. He can make opportunities for himself wherever he goes and graduating with zero debt is so helpful .
What does your son think about this? What budget did you give him before he applied to all these schools? I went to Pitt and love Pittsburgh. But, if he was thinking he could go to Yale, Columbia, or Penn if he was accepted, he might be very conflicted if money is coming so much into play now?
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One thing you can try is ask for a room /board waiver. Money is money and some schools will do this and might get you closer to your goals. Yes some schools will match financial aid offers also. Never hurts to ask.
Just saw you have thisā¦
So itās not that money is coming into play. From the beginning he knew how much we could help him and his brother. I am ok with co-signing a loan for him and I understand the risks. The calculators were all in the ball park. So at the end of his undergraduate his loans will be about 60,000 if he chooses Upenn. We may appeal Yale or Columbia. There was no way of knowing he would get any free ride to any of the other schools (we only hoped for some type of merit). We also had no idea that he would even get into any ivy so thereās that too. Heās very lucky to have these options. I was just curious on opinions and heās reading all of them so thanks for the input.
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OK, hereās one way to think of it:
Is there something else he would/could do with an extra 60-80k? In that case, Pitt + extra somethings or Ivy (and the Ivies tend to be pretty different; he has no preference among them?)
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Also, I donāt think we ever heard an answer: What are his other interests? Without that, itās hard to give advice besides about medical research, where Pitt would be plenty strong.
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Can he be RA during Junior and Sr year? Then room and board will be canceled by doing so. My kid is doing RA for two years (this year COVID so RA is pretty no-work in the dorm) and it helped us a lot. Did you visit all the campuses? Feeling the vibes is important. My student could have gotten almost free ride but decided to go with a private college and we never regretted it.
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RA jobs on most college campuses are highly competitive. Please donāt count on getting this job. There are many, many applicants for each open position.
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Yes my student applied five dorms I guess and luckily got a position and is promised to do another year. Then again my student goes to a college where most of all students live on campus for four years; hence many residential halls = many RA positions.
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He has a lot of interests language study, political science, environmental science and law. He excels in math and loves fashion lol.
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If your son wants to do research then Iām assuming grad school is in the cards. Not having $60k in debt would be nice.
For some of those fields, the network at the Ivies would be a benefit. For some others, not.
Thatās still a big chunk of debt, though. Given time, compounding is a powerful force that can work for you, but debt is compounding working against you.
I am starting to think that UPenn, Yale or Columbia would be great fits for your son because he has so many academic interests and, apparently enthusiasm. Graduates from these schools often have well-paid options through networks and on-campus recruiting.
You were prepared for these costs, it seems, but didnāt expect the free rides. So if the free rides didnāt happen, you would not be posting, right?
There are ways to mitigate cost with on-campus and summer work, as I wrote before. I think it depends on whether you would be willing to help with paying back loans or whether he will be solely responsible.
I really would encourage him to consider the pros of Yale, Columbia and Penn in terms of inspiring peers and courses and the sort of intellectual atmosphere where he could thrive. If the other schools offer the same, then fine, make cost a priority, but despite the conventional wisdom here, for some kids, those Ivies are life-changing.
Just playing devilās advocate. I wanted my kids to go to state schools but two ended up at Ivies and I do think it had a big influence on their lives, which surprised me. Not a popular stance but just being honest.
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My question is why apply to colleges that you cannot afford if accepted? Itās seems particularly cruel to the student who works their tail off in high school to be accepted to all these word class colleges just to say āsorry but we canāt afford itā. This should have been a discussion when he applied to colleges in the fall to manage expectations.
My second point is that some colleges open doors and itās not just about āprestigeā. How about he actual education and opportunities one gets that stays with you the rest of your life. Case in point. Student we know at Harvard just got a summer internship with a very high profile senator. Attending H absolutely helped this student get that internship. Had the student attended her cheapest $ college UC Berkeley, itās highly unlikely that the internship happens this summer (taking nothing away from UCB). Cheaper is not always better.
Iām a firm believer in that it ALL matters, the high school you attended, your ECs, your work experience, the college you attend, your peer group, etc. HOW MUCH it matters is the million dollar question.
Lastly, someone intimated that itās better to attend a college where you are the top student instead of being a great student among other great students. I disagree. I think the top students want to challenge themselves against the best; that experience makes them better and they grow as a student and a young adult.
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