I never said we couldn’t afford it. He knew the numbers and how much we could help. If he didn’t get the full rides the costs of these ivy’s come out cheaper then our state schools. So… my son knew up front how much we could help with college and how much he would have to borrow. Again we have no problem co-signing any loans we have to and we know the risks if he can’t pay. I was just curious on peoples opinions on the matter.
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Well said. I am actually facing a similar situation with my son’s options. The contrast is less then the OP’s case though. My son doesn’t even have any ivy, but he got admitted to Emory. However, other options include a full ride at U Florida. I told him to follow what he loved when we decided the list for his applications, but now I am facing a steep bill of $310k. A lot of things are not as planned. 
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Of course, everyone has different view. If my son is that good, I would not hesitate at all to work with him to fund his education at one of the top schools for the great opportunities. Being surrounded by a group of great minds itself is worth a lot. In my view, peer group plays the most important role in high education, quality of the professors are secondary. The kids may develop more potential by teaming up with more intelligent classmates. Anyway, financial consideration is a very personal topic.
No matter what school your son picks in the end. There is one thing for sure, you can be very proud of his achievement so far. Congratulations!
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Thank you so much! I am extremely proud of him.
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Congrats. Go to Pitt for undergrad and try for Ivy for graduate school.
$310K - there’s really no debate. I get it - Emory is smaller, more personal - but $310K (assuming you are paying full) vs. full pay - is a no brainer - and by the way, college cost more than they tell you it does - Greek, later night pizzas, spring break trips - it adds up.
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That $60k loan could pay for grad school or more.
I don’t agree with @aggie92 at all. It’s not a “negotiation.” If the OP presents the Penn offer to Yale and kindly asks them to take a second look at the financial aid calculation, Yale will most likely meet it. Whatever is the best offer of the three Ivy League schools is what he should be paying at any of the Ivies he got into. So I’m one in the camp that says the free ride isn’t always a no-brainer. If Yale costs $20k/year (which it likely will after you show them the Penn offer), and parents can pay $5k/year (I think you said that upthread), that means there will be $60 in loans. Is that correct? (Forget what the FA letter says about “parental contribution” or what your EFC is – just look at the cost to you per year in total, minus what you can pay in cash per year). So, if $60k – or even $80k – in loans for four years of Yale plus the $5k/yr you’ll pay in cash is the total for a Yale education … I think it’s entirely doable IF your child values that kind of education and wants to be in that kind of environment. A Yale education is a luxury good and is highly coveted among those who hold the philosophy that these four years are for the purpose of getting educated, and not solely for accumulating a credential for a job. He can major in anything he wants and get a very high-paying job right out of college. He can also earn AT LEAST $10k-$15k/summer with the internships he can get being a Yale undergrad.
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I really wound not underestimate the cost of going to an urban school in NYC. Actually, LC does not have a campus an there is really not a lot to do in the LC area. Kid will probably spend a lot of time going out around other parts of the city. Talking cabs, lyfts ,going out to eat, bars, clubs, etc gets really pricey really quick. Please don’t say he is not that kind of kid, because no way is he going to stay in his dorm for 4 years with no semblance of a social life.
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So, at least one Ivy will come in at 20k per year. 60k total.
27k covered by Stafford loan, which everyone agrees is a reasonable amount of debt, definitely for an Ivy grad, 20k covered out of pocket.
I come up with 13k additional parent plus loans.
Sorry, that’s a steal.
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Id go wit the ivy. He onlt has one life. 80k isnt 400k in debt we’re talking here. He’s gonna work anyways. Might as well get a good job with an ivy league education. Im just impressed he was able to get in and im sure is employers will be as well. Dont take this way from him by making him go to pitt; he is truly talented.
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For a phd that’ll be funded (ie., free) at a top ranked institution (the only ones worth it at that level) he’ll be better set at the Ivy. There’s definitely a prestige mindset at the PHD level and they have more resources.
Pitt or UDel Honors will offer him a strong experience too, but it’ll be different, so it really depends on who he is, what he wants. If you can “make it work”, I wouldn’t trade Yale for Pitt/UDel Honors unless you’re already Upper middle class (250K income, college/professional/graduate degrees, etc) in which case we know from research it makes no difference where he attends. The kids for whom colleges such as Yale or Penn make a big difference in outcomes are first gens (no parent with a 4-year degree), lower income (middle class included, since it goes up to 65K), URM. For most “non upper class” kids, Ivies open doors most of us don’t even know exist. For an exceptional kid, they can make a big difference. That’s why parents who graduated from these colleges really want their kids to attend, they know it means something intangible but meaningful.
80k debt = you can’t afford your efc? Is there any way you can reduce the debt? Have you tried bringing up with Yale expenses that made the efc unaffordable, any change since 2019 that would result in better financial aid packages? If you show Penn’s package to Yale and/or if you had circumstances in 2020 that altered your financial situation, ask for a review.
Just don’t use the word “negotiate”. Say “Bring new circumstances to light” and “use professional judgement”.
Honors colleges and a research thesis will help of course - for a funded PHD he’ll need published research as a 4th or 5th author, conferences/presentations, a thesis or original paper, and research experience.
However, be aware that the pace, depth, and level of the classes will be different at Pitt and Udel; usually not a problem in the sciences, but he wants to become a researcher, which from HS indicates an intellectual orientation and focus, so you want to look at 1° whether honors students can take graduate level courses, how early, what process it requires (special dispensation or just enrolling if one has the pre reqs?) 2° look at the research specialties in all his possible fields of interest, inquire what research is being conducted, what was recently published (within 5 years) by the professors in those fields, what fellowships and grants have been won by the science faculty.
I wouldn’t pick Fordham for science.
Udel for chemistry, Pitt for medical research.
The problem is biology, a field that has few professional outcomes. He’d be better off as undecided, exploring the sciences and figuring out what field he’s interested in, questioning his professors about what sort of work they’re doing. AP bio and research in biology are not closely related, in the same way arithmetic is a distant cousin to calculus.
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I agree that being surrounded by similar peers is optimal for higher ed. However, what makes you think that won’t happen at Pitt or UF?
Just spit-balling some numbers…75% percentile SAT at Pitt is 1440 and they enroll about 4,000 kids every year. That’s 1,000 kids above 1440 x 4 years. There’s a lot of smart kids at Public schools. And then throw-in probably $1B in medical research every year.
Today, employers understand that there are a lot of smart kids that don’t go to Ivy schools. There are so few slots and it’s basically unaffordable for donut families. Kids have to go somewhere. That’s why you’ve seen a proliferation of Honors programs at public universities. Pitt Honors and Chancellors scholar isn’t too shabby.
We basically did the same thing with our kids. Set a minimum cost threshold. After a school met the threshold it was fair game and the decision was on them. They vehemently don’t want any debt. They’ve talked to other kids and heard first hand how it limits people’s choices.
I have no skin in the game but at this point it should be up to your son. Everyone knew the rules when he applied. The Pitt offer is just the icing. I’m a Pitt grad and think their offer makes the most sense but I’m not 18. If you’re son hates Pitt then move on to an Ivy. I hate debt but the amounts you’re talking about aren’t terrible, especially if you factor the fed loans into the cost. Good luck.
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Pretty much impossible to surmise the hypothetical, but a lot (maybe almost all) public flagships have DC programs and plenty of Congresspeople draw interns from their in-state publics.
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It really depends on the student.
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I like some of your points but dislike statements like this because you could make that statement about any school.
In any case, the National Scorecard has median income by major and school (for those who received fin aid).
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Arguably, but you took away $20K twice.
Also, has the OP included Federal loans in the aid from the Ivies? And a loan is still a loan.
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So for example, according to the College Scorecard, English majors graduating from Columbia make a median of $41K. Fine Arts majors median is $30K.
And not everyone at Yale/Columbia/Penn lands a high-paying internship. So the Ivies will open doors and may be worthwhile, but let’s ground the debate in actual facts.
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To the best of my knowledge, none of these 3 universities package federal loans, so that the 20K per year would be -5k family contribution and -5.5K federal loans or a 9.5k “gap” that’s not funded. We already know this student has work study, which a scholarship may cover (but the student could still work. Granted, that’s just for pocket money for miscellaneous expenses).
It sounds like there are 2 in college at the same time, was this included in the CSS Profile?
I really think this family should ask for a review of the FA package + professional judgement because the Yale package being less good than Penn’s would indicate something didn’t get through at Yale - their services aren’t fail-proof.
Also, they include everything in their estimates, meaning the 20K would include the cost of books, transportation, and miscellaneous - all of which can be easily decreased. The 9.5K “gap” per year is likely much less than that and will likely shrink after professional judgement.
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When you say ‘low tier school’, what do you mean? Would you say that all T100s are in the 'great school that just doesn’t have Ivy-ish name recognition?
I got into a T100 school with a great merit scholarship and I think it has the absolute perfect program to get me to my goal of a great PhD program, but I can’t help but think I’m going to regret turning down my two reaches.