Well, I guess “really good” is relative. I would bet that most legit applicants to an Ivy will have teachers who like them, and write favorable recommendations. What I meant by the use of really good was something that makes one 3.9ugpa, 34ACT stand out from the other couple dozen or so in that particular reviewer’s pile that day. Even then though, I have to wonder how much sway a letter from a coach saying “this kid is a pretty good tennis player, just not good enough to be one of the top 9 or 10 you said I could have this year” has. Does it tip the scales more than a unique family background, or a really exceptional arts supplement? We really don’t know how much each type of activity is weighed by each school in each year. Therefore, it seems awful hard to quantify. Know what I mean?
@CDK, I am a little more on the “black or white” or “it is or it ain’t” side of the issue based on what I have observed personally and what I have read here. But that is beside the point.
Here is the point I would like to make. Athletic recruiting at all Ivies, for all sports is not “likely letter or nothing”, it is admissions slot or nothing. This opinion is based on things I have been told by Ivy coaches in a group setting, comments of posters such as swimkidsdad, and stuff I have read such as the following:
http://www.browndailyherald.com/2011/04/14/likely-letters-preempt-admission-cycle/
Disclaimers: This article is about five years old, when Brown was reserving about 225 admissions slots for athletes per year. Another part of the article says about half of Brown’s 300 LLs went to athletes, which would give a slightly higher number than indicated in the quote.
So, at least at Brown, there are lots of fully recruited and supported athletes who are not getting likely letters. Do I think there are tiers of support, such as: Tier One=Recruit with LL, Tier Two=Recruit without LL, Tier Three=unrecruited with letter in the file? No.
As another poster said–and as I think you would agree with, “With 30-40 sports at 8 different schools, nobody can know it all. It’s great when people with direct, firsthand knowledge in a particular sport can relate their experience - it just adds to the collective knowledge.”
PS: I also have a suspicion, can’t verify it, that the use of LLs may be more prevalent at the SCEA Ivies than the others, in consideration of the non-binding nature of SCEA and the binding requirement of ED. I think there may be a greater incentive for schools to appeal/assuage/cater to SCEA kids than ED kids. I think both the SCEA and ED schools utilize LLs similarly in cases where NLI deadlines may be relevant
I’m a recruited athlete this year at NESCAC and Ivy, and have had a lot of contacts with coaches this summer/fall.
For Ivy, I agree with this, as it applies to likely letters:
@fenwaypark “Athletic recruiting at all Ivies, for all sports is not “likely letter or nothing”, it is admissions slot or nothing.”
If an Ivy coach tells you that he has a slot and wants you to for that slot, and you get a positive pre-read from admissions, it’s a done deal.
The only way it isn’t is if there’s a real “smoking gun” in your application, or you do something that would get an acceptance withdrawn for any student (felony, bunch of C’s and D’s senior year, etc.).
A formal likely letter isn’t very relevant, but in any event, as a practical matter is moot. I can’t imagine a coach saying he wants you to fill a slot, but won’t ask for a likely letter if you insist on that.
I’ve been told by an Ivy head coach that there is a possible “enhanced application” type thing, esp. for legacies (of which I am). He said for students who are particularly academically qualified (as I am, with an AI well above any Ivy average), and esp. if the student is also a legacy, if you note that you intend to play on the team the admissions department often will contact him. If he tells the admissions department “yes, the applicant will have a spot on the team,” it does help. He said it happened with a student last year.
But he was careful to say that he can’t say whether it will or will not happen in any particular case.
I think one big issue in talking about all 8 Ivies and 30+ sports is that all coaches/sports/schools may handle this slightly differently. A slot/LL is generally a done deal across the board. Some coaches in some sports at some schools may have a little more ‘pull’ with admissions and might occasionally get a little extra consideration for a particularly well qualified student athlete that they also support outside of a ‘slot’ (either verbally or a written letter of support). I would say that this is obviously the minority, but it does occur.
Do you think the same would be true in top non ivies? Like Stanford, etc?
@Kahlua610, I believe the AI/likely letter system is pretty unique, and I would be cautious about trying to draw lessons of general import from what we are speculating about here. As always, the very best thing to do is ask specific questions of the coach recruiting you, and listen carefully to the answers.
My student is being recruited, coach said he is supporting application and he is using a slot. Coach got positive admission pre read and so asked for ea application. I’m thinking this is very good. Just looking for others take to confirm my thoughts …
@CDK. Agree 100%
@Kahlua610. You’re golden.
Kahlua610, what more could the coach do or say to make you feel it’s a ‘sure thing’? I don’t think there really is anything, there is always a small risk that something will go wrong. Could the pre-read be wrong? Yes, but the odds are in your favor.
My daughter accepted and signed in Nov. In February the FA letter came and it wasn’t what we were expecting. Many phone calls later, it worked out, but it might not have. We really didn’t feel confident until that first bill was paid and she was sitting in class!
@kahlua610, I agree that your student should be in good shape at Stanford with a positive pre-read and coach supporting the application. Stanford does issue Likely Letters for athletes by the way, with the main difference versus the Ivy process being Stanford, in some cases anyway, will issue them earlier than the Ivy rules allow.
I agree with you… My child is nervous because of lack of LL. Coach said at this point it was too late, it would come after decisions came out so made no sense. I guess he’s nervous his essay won’t be good enough or it is too good to be true! His friend got LL last month from an ivy, which adds to his stess. I think he won’t believe it Til he’s looking at the acceptance and sends in deposit!
ThAnks for the encouragement !
I’ve been fasting from CC for a bit, but just want to chime in and say that I’m in full agreement with your definitions of “soft support,” and your discussion of its limitations.
My main reason to throw the term out there in the first place was precisely to try to delineate the line between true support (which OhioDad and fenwaypark have clearly laid out in the early parts of this thread) and fuzzier statements that some coaches may sometimes make. I certainly did not want to suggest that that type of support is something to be counted on.
I also agree that this kind of help/support/boost/whatever it should be called seems to go to students who are already great candidates for general admission–which in the crazy world of the Ivy League is no guarantee of anything. In that sense, it can’t hurt for those kids to let the coaches know if they decide to apply in the regular pool–and certainly if they’ve been waitlisted.
Son received his LL today. It all worked just as you all said it would. Very straightforward.
congrats @tonymom Best to you and your son over the next four years!