A little bit about my situation: I’m Canadian, a current HS senior and a competitive swimmer. I wasn’t fast enough to be recruited to any Ivies this year, though did get interest from some D3 schools (times for my best events: low 58 100 breast, 2:08 200 breast & 52 100 fly). Ultimately, I didn’t get accepted to any of the US schools I applied to, but was accepted to a few solid Canadian programs. I’m considering taking a gap year, where I’m planning to train hard both in & out of the water (dryland, several weight strengthening sessions per week, etc., as I was a late bloomer and still have potential to add on some muscle) over the next several months to get recruited to an Ivy (my top choices are Yale, Penn and Columbia) by around October.
My goal times for my events, which I need to achieve by late August, are sub 56 in the 100 breast, 2:02-2:03 in the 200 breast and sub 50 in the 100 fly - I believe these should be fast enough times for me to be recruited to my target schools, though please correct me if I’m wrong. I’m willing to put in the work starting in May and all throughout summer to get to these times.
I understand that there are two main issues: deciding to take a gap year and, if I do, the timing of the recruiting process. I’d really appreciate if anyone who has experience with being recruited to an Ivy for swimming / had a child recruited to any Ivy for swimming could give me honest answers to my questions:
How realistic is this plan? I know it'll be tough to take off the time within a 3 month timeframe, but I think it's possible. Would coaches see a big improvement this summer as a plus and if so, how much would that raise my recruiting chances?
Does being an international athlete from Canada impact my recruiting chances to the aforementioned Ivies? I know some people from my area who were recruited to Penn for swimming, but I'm not sure if Yale and Columbia regularly take international athletes, too.
Regarding timing: could someone please shed light on the recruiting timeline? For example, if I managed to get the necessary times by late August, would I still be too late in the recruiting process (in other words, would the coaches have already picked all their "slot" recruits by then)? From what I've read and gathered from Ivy coaches, recruits are generally narrowed down by September, OVs can be taken in September, the applications are submitted in September and likely letters are sent by October to November... again, please correct me if I'm wrong.
Any other pieces of recruiting advice or things I should know if I do choose to take a gap year to pursue my dream?
Thanks so much for reading all of this, and I hope some knowledgeable swim recruits or parents can help me with my questions.
I used to swim on a team that had Ivy+ recruited athletes, so I think I might have some anecdotal experience that could pertain to you. Additionally, my sister was recruited to swim at top D3 schools (check my posts for more info).
These drops are pretty significant and would depend on the type of momentum that your training and previous seasons have taken. In my state, a 58 might qualify for the consolation heat of our hs state meet in the 100 breaststroke (depending on the year), whereas a 56 is almost a definite top 6. So the time drops you are hoping to make are non-trivial. And big drops are definitely a plus. For my sister, one of the reasons she received an athletic recommendation from the coach was because of her big time drop late in the season.
It should not make a difference. International students compete on almost all large collegiate sports teams.
You are correct that Ivy swimming recruits are generally chosen around September. However, recruitment occurs on a case-by-case basis. One of my swim friends applied to his Ivy in October, and received his likely letter within 3 weeks. But if you check swimswam.com (which reports swim commits), you can see that several athletes have committed to schools like Brown, Columbia, after the regular decision results have been released. It all depends on how much the coach wants you and how many of their slots were taken ED/SCEA.
Just know that for a majority of athletes at an Ivy schools (or any other academic-heavy institution), the time drops usually stop in college. Are you prepared to give up a year of your life to train for a sport that may not work out in the short-run (even if you do reach the Ivy level)? Is that kind of effort REALLY worth it just to go to a “brand name” university? I’m not trying to discourage you - I loved swimming, and my sister loves swimming, and I can tell that you probably feel the same way as well, and its great that you aspire to go to these top schools. But a year is a large amount of time to lose, and your times may not be what you want a year from now.
At the end of the day, it boils down to whether your dream is having a stellar collegiate swim career (bordering pro) or if it is attending an Ivy league. In almost all cases, you can have one but not the other, and you might not get either!
Of course, I could be wrong, and you could be the next Katie Meili. I hope my answers provided a little bit of help though. Best of luck!
(You should also consider top D3s - “Little Ivies”, Pomona-Pitzer, GTown, MIT, JHU, Uchicago, Emory, CMU. You’d have a fair shot at getting into many of these with athletic support)
Ivy school recruitment depends heavily on the academic specs of the athlete. The academic index score has to be within the standard deviation of the admitted class average. Although sports recruitment is certainly a significant hook for getting an athlete admitted to an Ivy, it is nowhere close to being a guarantee. The non revenue generating sports coaches in the Ivys really does not have a very strong influence in getting athletes with very average academic specs admitted. So when considering the Ivy’s, several of the coaches (albeit not swimming, but still a niche sport) said the minimum is 3.7gpa, minimum 700’s across the board on the SAT’s, preferable 1500 to help in getting the athlete admitted. Therefore, not only do you need to work hard on your swimming stats, but need to make sure your academics is stellar as well.
@asianfang Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. As a past swimmer yourself, do you think my proposed time drops are doable, or very unrealistic? While I would have other plans for my gap year such as volunteer work, etc. (so it wouldn’t be a complete waste of one year), I do agree that it is risky to take off a year and potentially not see any improvements. My education definitely comes first, though I always wanted to swim D1 in a competitive conference, which was one reason why I was looking at the Ivy schools. I did look at CMS, Chicago and JHU during the recruiting process but I was even then a touch off of what I would’ve needed to be a full recruit. I’m also interested in MIT, but I heard being recruited only helps admissions chances a bit.
@justverycurious my super scored ACT is a 35 and both of my subject tests were above 700s, so standard testing wise I think I’m fine. My GPA is not the highest (probably the main reason I didn’t get into these schools this year), but I go to a rigorous NE boarding school so I assume coaches/admissions would take that into consideration.
@CCThunderfin Your test scores are very good and depending on your GPA your Academic Index (https://www.goschoolwise.com/tools/academic-index) may be good enough for Ivy admissions. Yes I believe the prestige of the high school especially if well known by the Ivy admission will be taken into consideration when it comes to the GPA.
@CCThunderfin these drops are definitely possible with a good season or two. The drops in breaststroke usually stop at 54 and and 48 for the fly, from what kids in my state experienced. Something else that coaches take into account is height and frame. So if you are tall and skinny, they might see a lot of potential and be more forgiving of slower times.
My sister was actually recruited by MIT and accepted during regular action this year. You are a more versatile swimmer, and have similar stats (she was a little stronger academically, check results threads for details). I think you can get admitted to MIT with a little more work on your times. It’s harder for guys because the men’s team at MIT is so strong.
If you want specific details about MIT and Chicago (my sis was recruited there too), feel free to pm me.
@justverycurious Thanks for the website, I was trying to find an AI site that was relatively accurate so I’ll check it out.
@asianfang Sorry - just to clarify, do you mean that drops in my breaststroke & fly events is possible in ~3.5 months of training, or that it would take at least a full season to achieve those drops? I’m 6’0, so not the tallest, though I do think I can add on a lot of muscle during the summer.
I tried contacting the MIT swim coach several days ago, and will try again as I haven’t received a reply. My only worry with MIT is that I don’t have enough science-related ECs, so I’m not sure how I’d fare in admissions. I’d hate to apply EA with supposed coach’s support only to get deferred…
@CCThunderfin I’m not sure about the drops. Did you drop from a 1:02 to a 58 this year, or from a 59 to a 58? That could dictate the nature of your upcoming year. But you also have more time to train (without school), so that’s a plus. 6’0" is not bad for a swimmer.
As for MIT, my sister didn’t really have anything on her app other than swimming. She had a little bit of research experience, but that was about it. Your concerns about applying and not getting in, however, are valid. We had no way of knowing until the day admissions decisions were released. One plus about MIT is that they seemed to recruit Sis rather late. She didn’t talk with them until mid-December (2 weeks before apps were due!). I’d say with your stats and times, your chances with MIT are probably 40/60.
Probably a stupid question, but what pool length are you swimming in Canada? I read somewhere that U.S. coaches like to have your 25Y times, not 25M or long course, because the conversions are not terribly reliable. Is there any chance you could swim a tapered meet in the U.S. to get 25Y times, perhaps early this fall (since most meets over summer are long course)?
@asianfang I dropped from a mid 59 last season to a low 58 this year. I didn’t have the best school championship meet, though, as I was looking to go a mid to high 57. I’m hoping the more intense training, more sleep and strength training will help me shave off the 2 seconds. Haha, thanks for your prediction about my MIT chances… I’ll take that into consideration.
@planit In summer we’ll be swimming in 50 LCM pools (in the fall and winter Canadian meets are in 25 SCM pools). I’m thinking about that possibility actually - I may stay with one of my friends for part of the summer, who lives in South Carolina. If I did that, my goal would be to compete at Speedo Junior Nats. I’m also looking to do a time trial by myself in necessary in late August or early September.
If you can get to junior nationals, there will be piles of college coaches there. Let them know ahead of time what you’re swimming. Time trial anything you think you can swim well but don’t have a qualifying time for–I know someone who time-trialed the 400 IM there and got an offer from an SEC school based off of the coach’s seeing his time trial. If you can’t do Jr Nats, I would definitely do whatever you need to get tapered 25Y times. The easier you can make it on college coaches, the better.