J-schools / journalism degrees "worthless?"

Parents Forum
1

<p>Michael Lewis' 1993 article, published in the New Republic and titled J-School</a> Ate My Brain, has become a pretty famous criticism of the curriculum taught at journalism schools. It's a long read, but it's interesting (and pretty funny, too). The gist is that, by focusing on journalism theory rather than on journalism in practice -- by unnecessarily complicating the art of the craft -- J-schools stifle innovation, hurt graduates' job prospects, and generally produce bad writers.</p>

<p>Lewis isn't alone: [url=<a href="http://www.slate.com/id/2071993/%5Dthis%5B/url"&gt;http://www.slate.com/id/2071993/]this[/url&lt;/a&gt;] Slate article reiterates and expounds upon many of the criticisms made in "J-School Ate My Brain," and even a few CC posters (namely Bedhead) have echoed anti-j-school sentiments. I've thought about pursuing journalism professionally and have considered J-schools like Berkeley's and Columbia's, but I'm not sure what to think after reading these articles. To those in the journalism field: what is your take? Are these criticisms accurate? </p>

<p>Some highlights from the articles:</p>

<p>


</p>

<p>
[QUOTE=Slate]

The ASNE survey found that only 10 percent of newsroom employees hold J-school graduate degrees, and I defy any member of the professoriate to identify a journalist's credentials by the quality of his work. When I read the r</p>

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<p>This debate has been going on for many years. You won't find a clear answer.</p>

<p>The business model and technology changes are more intriguing now. Anyone interested in journalism, or getting paid to write, should Google around. Much soul-searching is going on in the industry, because in many cases, the "getting paid" part is harder.</p>

<p>A good place to start, if I can post a link successfully:
<a href="http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2007/may/27/the-paper-chase/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2007/may/27/the-paper-chase/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And more:
<a href="http://www.collegemediainnovation.org/blog/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegemediainnovation.org/blog/&lt;/a>
<a href="http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.newschallenge.org/release.php%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.newschallenge.org/release.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>One intriguing thought:
Journalism businesses want to train undergrads with computer science degrees to do journalism, in master's degrees or other ways. You could flip that, getting an undergrad in journalism and a master's in computer science or technical MLS.
You'd be incredibly marketable then, but your skills would need to go beyond writing.</p>

3

<p>My father, who was a print managing editor at a now-defunct afternoon paper, thought journalism school graduates were no better qualified than anyone else. He looked for experience writing and a willingness to learn.</p>

<p>My brother, who worked for the Washington Post for many years, felt the same way.</p>

<p>However, I also note that both, in retirement, chose to teach in journalism schools. </p>

<p>It is my observation that the journalists who flourish seem to know a subject first, such as economics or business or science or medicine, and then write about it engagingly.</p>

4

<p>
[quote]
It is my observation that the journalists who flourish seem to know a subject first, such as economics or business or science or medicine, and then write about it engagingly.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's pretty close to what Bedhead contested: that prospective journalists should spend their undergrad years both exploring an interest in a specific subject and developing a clear writing style. Grad school -- should they choose to take that route -- is for mastering their subject, since they should be able to write well by the time they graduate from college.</p>

5

<p>
[quote]
A good place to start, if I can post a link successfully:
<a href="http://www.venturacountystar.com/new...e-paper-chase/%5B/url%5D%5B/quote%5D"&gt;http://www.venturacountystar.com/new...e-paper-chase/

[/quote]
</a></p>

<p>From the article:</p>

<p>
[quote]
June Cal Poly graduate Rancer is happy with the Pacific Coast Business Times position she landed, but described her two-month job hunt as "really discouraging."</p>

<p>She has a 3.9 grade-point average and experience, including a year as editor of Cal Poly's Mustang Daily, a six-month internship at the San Luis Obispo Tribune and a four-month Boston University program in France, where she worked at the English-language Paris Times. Rancer figured that background should have made her job hunt fairly quick.</p>

<p>Instead, she was repeatedly rejected...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>That's an especially discouraging excerpt considering the student's credentials and qualifications.</p>

6

<p>One thing anyone thinking about this field has to consider is that conditions in the newspaper world are pretty horrible right now. Daily newspapers are merging, dying, and paring staff all the time. Many of the newspaper reporters I know -- people in their 40s or 50s, with successful careers -- are very depressed, and/or looking to get into another line of work. Look -- the owners and editors of The Wall Street Journal, with probably the best combination of quality and economic success in the world among daily papers, are publicly uncertain that it can survive long-term as a stand-alone business. That tells you a lot.</p>

<p>That doesn't mean that there aren't opportunities out there. But there are fewer of them than there were a decade ago, and a lot fewer than 20-30 years ago.</p>

<p>The majority of publications now (including many of the top papers) get all to much of their material from freelancers. Freelancing is where the action is. It is completely possible to have a great career as a freelancer, but it's a different sort of process than "looking for a job". Also, when permanent positions do come open, they often go to freelancers who have been working successfully with the publication already.</p>

<p>(What does this mean to the j-school / non-j-school debate? Not much. It affects everyone who wants to write for newspapers and magazines equally.)</p>

7

<p>A ray of hope, Cliff Notes version:
Dr. Conrad Fink of UGA, speaking about his journalism management students in The Ventura County Star:</p>

<p>"They see this revolutionary change that we're in now as simply a matter of course. I find them looking forward to helping write the new business model of the newspaper industry," he said. "I find them intrigued with the online dimensions of the industry.</p>

<p>"I don't see the fear and trepidation that so many of us in the older newspaper generation feel with this kind of change."</p>

<p>So just imagine being able to figure out how to use Facebook to present news, or Youtube. Or something like College Confidential. Imagine covering a political campaign using all the new technology available now.</p>

<p>You can save the journalism, and save the world. (Sorry, "Heroes" fans).</p>

8

<p>My neighbor, now in his 50's, went to Wake Forest Univ.and majored in history back in the 70's. He had covered sports while in college. After grad., he got a job with the local small city paper covering sports.<br>
He later moved to a much larger city and worked for a regional paper. Later, he quit that job, did some freelancing and then started his own small town newspaper which seems to be doing well..all without a journalism degree.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
Daily newspapers are merging, dying, and paring staff all the time. Many of the newspaper reporters I know -- people in their 40s or 50s, with successful careers -- are very depressed, and/or looking to get into another line of work. Look -- the owners and editors of The Wall Street Journal, with probably the best combination of quality and economic success in the world among daily papers, are publicly uncertain that it can survive long-term as a stand-alone business.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Okay, a question: what is "it?" Do you guys consider online newswriting and print journalism -- the kind you might have delivered to your home -- to be seperate entities? Does the Big Journalism Crunch affect those newspapers that have made the jump to cyberspace? Is it a question of adapting to new technology, or of the market being oversaturated (or both)?</p>

<p>Basically, am I only in trouble if I want to work in a newsroom writing for a traditional printed newspaper? Are those willing to publish online at a significant advantage?</p>

<p><em>edit</em></p>

<p>wrote this before I saw purplexed's reply; sorry if it sounds redundant</p>

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<p>The issue, juxtaposn, is that the newspaper world has traditionally made big investments in people, equipment, and physical plant. There are unions, and benefit packages, and stable jobs, and the largest, "best" newspapers and wire services can have multiple people spend weeks or even months following a story and reporting it meticulously, with lots of internal controls. (The occasional, spectacular failures of those controls does not mean they are worthless.)</p>

<p>People have been able to generate some ad revenue with online journalism, but nowhere near enough to support that kind of investment. No one really knows where "quality" journalism will come from in an online-only world. So far, only The Wall Street Journal has been successful in maintaining an economically vibrant subscription model, so its public limbo is especially chilling.</p>

<p>People who are willing to publish online can get published. Everyone is willing to publish online, by the way. This issue is whether people who only publish online can get paid enough to sustain a career. Someone else can correct me, but I don't know of anyone with a successful online-only career. Online publication works to break people into mainstream print and broadcast media, or to sustain the reputations and cash flow of people who built their careers in the mainstream. Maybe Drudge qualifies, but that's not especially heartening.</p>

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<p>For example: </p>

<p>In one sentence, the article proclaims the death of the newspaper; in the next, it predicts a brighter future for those journalism grads able to meet "revolutionary change...[without] fear and trepidation." What is this revolutionary change? Maybe it's because I've grown up with computers, but I don't see how establishing your newspaper online is "revolutionary." Am I interpreting the article correctly?</p>

<p><em>edit</em></p>

<p>whoops, wrote this response before I saw JHS' reply</p>

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<p>Hey, to clarify, are we talking about newspapers specifically? What about magazines? And where do online versions of established publications (IE <a href="http://www.time.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.time.com&lt;/a>, <a href="http://www.usnews.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.usnews.com&lt;/a>, <a href="http://www.newyorktimes.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.newyorktimes.com&lt;/a&gt;) fit in?</p>

<p><em>edit -- sorry</em></p>

<p>aaaand, what about foreign correspondence work (ex: covering rising economies / territorial strife)? Does the crunch apply to those willing and qualified to write from overseas?</p>

13

<p>Magazines are great, but most magazines function mainly on a freelance model, with minimal permanent staff (except for a few mega-publications like Time, Newsweek, The New Yorker, which are like the magazine equivalents of The Wall Street Journal, except they are all part of conglomerates). And magazines are iffy, too. There is huge, and constant turnover in the print magazine world; very few publications survive long term. Their business model and revenues hasn't been impacted quite as heavily by technological change yet, but the tsunami will certainly reach them, too.</p>

<p>Here's a way to look at things: Thirty years ago, Warren Buffet wrote at one point that owning a daily newspaper in a single-newspaper market was like having the right to tax economic activity in that market. Anyone who wanted to sell anything, or to hire anyone, had to advertise in the newspaper. That's the economic base that almost every newspaper in the country except WSJ and USA Today was built on.</p>

<p>Think of what's replaced that. eBay. Amazon. Monster.com. Two or three free weeklies in every major market. A zillion broadcast channels selling local ads. People are making more money than ever on facilitating buying and selling, but it's not the publications that employ the majority of professional journalists. Their business model is in complete crisis.</p>

<p>And fewer people are reading, and more people are content to get their news from TV (where the average amount of text for a half-hour broadcast would fit comfortably on half a standard newspaper page). News reporting is increasingly outsourced, to wire services, freelancers, consortia of publications. (This is what's happening for your overseas work. There used to be three or four wire services, five or six networks, and five or six newspapers with bureaus in every major international city. It's less than half that, now. And much more reporting is done by local journalists.) So there are fewer and fewer people producing less and less material for fewer people to read. It's just not pretty.</p>

<p>Of course, on a micro level there are new writers emerging every day, people attracting readers or other audiences, and becoming successful. And people are making a living, sometimes even from "New Media". But the macro picture is still awfully dire. Back down at the micro level, it means that it's tough to get a job, and tough to get paid well.</p>

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<p>I read through that waiting for an "on the other hand," but it never came. Pretty thoroughly depressing.</p>

<p>Got any good news, or any ideas for a kid who loves to write?</p>

15

<p>My kid is in the same position. As I said, people are making it every day. It's just harder than it was when I was coming out of college. (Harder in some ways, much easier in others. The plethora of online outlets, and the ubiquity of freelancing, probably make it easier to accumulate a track record of quality work fast.) Overall employment in the journalism biz is probably down, but there's plenty of turnover, and new people are getting breaks every day. No one, including them, knows what their careers will be like over the next 40+ years. But then my cohort thought they knew what their careers would be like, and they didn't, really.</p>

<p>Also, if you write a book like "Marley & Me" or "Friday
Night Lights" (to use examples by local journalists here), it does wonders for (a) your career, and (b) your financial security.</p>

16

<p>It looks like I managed to hijack my own thread.</p>

<p>Moving back to the original topic at hand: if I was a recent college graduate with a B.A. in English, previous newspaper experience, and a clear writing style, would going to grad school help me to land a job -- or, perhaps more importantly, a higher salary? The argument against grad school / j-school seems to be that intelligent, articulate college graduates who are genuinely interested in journalism should be fully qualified to pursue their ambitions without having to obtain professional degrees.</p>

17

<p>If you have a bachelor's in English from Cornell and some newspaper experience, some would say a master's in journalism is worthless, unless you want a backup career as a journalism teacher or unless you need some time to focus on getting published more.</p>

<p>If your school (or another) dangles the opportunity to pick up a master's in journalism with continuing financial aid or grants, take it. That's your Plan B if you need it.</p>

<p>Some others would say a master's in journalism from Northwestern, Columbia or Chapel Hill is definitely worth something, and indeed, graduates from those programs are much more likely to get scarce jobs. But a bachelor's in English from Cornell, with experience, could definitely compete.</p>

<p>Another path: Get a master's in a specialty about which you'd like to report and write.</p>

<p>And yet another path: Apply for post-graduate fellowships that give you a focus in journalism, although many of those go to journalists already in the field.
Example: <a href="http://www.kiplingerprogram.org/kiplinger/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.kiplingerprogram.org/kiplinger/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>That might be the best option: try the field out for a couple of years, then go back for the master's or professional degree that sounds best to you if you wish. Lots of lawyers used to be journalists. Ditto public relations people, technical writers, etc....</p>

<p>Sorry for aiding and abetting a hijacking, and sorry for not offering the One True Path. But please enjoy the philosophical discussions about such issues while you're in school, and don't let money determine all your choices.</p>

18

<p>My dad went to Columbia's. Obviously that was some time ago. He's been very successful. But you have to be willing to do a lot, that most people aren't necessarily willing to do. A lot of people are kind of idealistic about this I think. My experience is that the minority of personalities are really suited for serious journalism. My mother is also a journalist but not really doing what my father did. She said she knew early she wouldn't do it. They've both written a book, but my mother was a ghostwriter. Her thought is, doesn't matter if you still get paid. This is true, and works perfectly fine for me, but it doesn't work like that if you want to make it in journalism the way my father did. Depends on the individual. Most people are probably going to end up in boring jobs writing about something they don't like, but they can make decent money that way sometimes. </p>

<p>
[quote]
if I was a recent college graduate with a B.A. in English, previous newspaper experience, and a clear writing style, would going to grad school help me to land a job -- or, perhaps more importantly, a higher salary? The argument against grad school / j-school seems to be that intelligent, articulate college graduates who are genuinely interested in journalism should be fully qualified to pursue their ambitions without having to obtain professional degrees.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There's a lot of need for connections here. If nothing else, I imagine getting to the top of a serious journalism program would yield the connections that will make getting a better job much easier. Could you get these connections without further education? Probably, if you really push hard. Is it going to take longer and be harder? Probably, I would guess so, unless you come into some sort of lucky break or already somehow have connections. </p>

<p>What do you want to do in journalism? Foreign correspondent? Lighter things, entertainment or food critic? I would say there are some paths here that journalism school might be more useful for than others. Journalism is a relatively broad field that has room for a variety of experience. My father specializes in a topic that had very present implications for foreign policy in the 90's when his career was the heaviest. This obviously makes things easier than someone who wanted to write about something that is relatively obscure.</p>

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<p>I majored in journalism and have worked both on-staff at a newspaper and as a freelancer, as well as in marketing and advertising. I was the first in my family to go to college, had to take on huge debt to do so, so majoring in something that would "Train" me for a job right out of college was of primary importance to me back then.</p>

<p>Anyhow, for what it's worth, unless you are in a similar position, I think you are missing an important underlying question. How do you want to spend the few years you have in college?</p>

<p>If the idea of taking 1/3 (or more at some schools) of your college life taking classes in things like reportorial writing, communications law, introduction to mass communications, magazine journalism, and research techniques for journalists excites you, go for the journalism degree. You won't have any regrets because you'll be doing something you love with your four short years in college.</p>

<p>If, on the other hand, the idea of having some time to explore other areas, and spending 1/3 of your studying another subject in depth - say, business, or politics, or English literature, or history or whatever floats your boat - sounds exciting, go for the broader undergraduate preparation. You won't have any regrets because you'll be doing something you love with your four short years in college.</p>

<p>If you take the second path, and want to see if a writing/journalism career will be for you, write for campus media. Write a blog about a subject that interests you. Seek out internships related to the communications industry. And, yes, if you can't find the job you want after graduation, consider going to J-school for grad school. People who are passionate about writing will find a way to make a living doing so regardless of what they major in in college. By the same token, if you major in journalism, you aren't stuck working in journalism for the rest of your life - explore other avenues for writing while you're in college, try different types of internships, be open to different ways to use your writing, research and creative skills. And, yes, consider going to grad school in another field if journalism turns out not to be your thing (my graduate degree is an MBA) Most college majors don't lock you into or out of anything and there is always room for changing course in life if you have a little determination.</p>

<p>But, you only have four years in college. Think about how you would most like to spend them. Compare the courses you'll be required to take for different majors. Go with whatever sounds most exciting to you, and you will have no regrets.</p>

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<p>There are as many different ways to become a journalist as there are journalists. Many graduates of graduate schools are successful and many who have no journalism degree are also successful. </p>

<p>I went to Columbia Journalism, and it was a great 9 months. I got to live and report in NYC. I think it helped me in the job market, but perhaps I could have made it without the degree. I'll never know.</p>

<p>Most of the people in my class had one to five years work experience after college, before grad school. I'd recommend getting some work experience, and then seeing if grad school still makes sense. Some of my classmates who worked for small newspapers used grad school to leap to larger papers, for example.</p>

<p>There are many jobs in journalism -- but they are not the prestige ones you are probably thinking about. They are at small newspapers, which means not at large metros. Most reporters at large metros paid their dues -- starting at small papers (10,000 to 75,000 circulation), moving to medium sized papers and then to major metros. These jobs at small newspapers pay very little. Starting reporters make in the $20,000 range (that's not a typo).</p>

<p>Another path is working on the copy desk. Again you have to start small, but I think there are more openings for copy editors at large papers than reporters. Don't hold me to that.</p>

<p>I'll confirm that the vast majority of magazines use freelancers. Very few magazines have paid full-time staff writers. As for foreign correspondents -- since most newspapers and TV stations have closed their foreign bureaus, I imagine the job prospects are pretty slim there, too. </p>

<p>Working for AP is another way in. But you will probably end up in the boonies somewhere first.</p>

<p>Last suggestion is getting a job at a trade publication. Some of these are pretty good and have good reputations. A lot of these are based in D.C. And reporters tend to read the trade publications in their beat, so you could end up with some name recognition. </p>

<p>To get an idea of the job market, browse <a href="http://www.journalismjobs.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.journalismjobs.com&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p>