January Update: Plans for Harvard Aplication

Colleges & Universities A-Z Harvard University
1

Dear College Confidential,

Some of you might remember me, if you do not, or you wish to find out about my history on this forum, feel free to look into my previous posts.

I left CC around November, to them come back around January in order to update on my progress.

Same things on application:

Hooks: Hispanic, First Gen applicant, fluent Spanish speaker, will shred the Spanish SAT II test, still am doing Model UN, and still will be doing Track in the spring

Some significant changes to my application:

I have dropped my AP/Honors courses, in order to raise GPA in CP ones. I was doing terrible in the AP/Honor level, mostly because I still had the procrastinating mentality, and my lack of studying caused my grades to very quickly hit the C-F mark. I of course, can’t really apply to an Ivy with these grades, so I took the bullet and left my favorite classes that I ever attended, and my school helped me format a CP class schedule that will raise my GPA. I have raised the grades very quickly, and I am breaking the 3.0 mark, and heading closer to my goal of a 3.4-3.5 for my sophomore year.

As for my football season, I also had a terrible year. I did not get in nearly as much as I wanted to, and right when I was ready to be promoted and start getting some Varsity time, I rolled my ankle and was out for several weeks. Luckily my coach was understanding of my academic situation, and allowed me time off from practice in order to recuperate and raise my grades when I was still in the AP/Honor courses. Because if my injury, I have no film to add to my highlight wheel, and I am working out daily in the weight room and outside in order to destroy next season.

My grade as of now is around a 3.0 Unweighted, however it will go up by the end of sophomore year, and will likely break the 3.5 mark. Sport wise I have to play like a god next year, as I only have one more season until I send my application (due to athletes applying Early Action generally.)

I have done quite a lot of research, as my CP classes are allowing me quite a lot of free time for training and research. I have read that AI for Ivy Athletic recruits does not discriminate nearly as much as normal admissions goes for class weight, so I am very confident that I can turn my setbacks and make myself competitive by the end of junior year. I have to make the admissions approve the admission, and get the coach to like me enough to give me a likely letter, and then I am in.

Plan so far:

Train, Train, Train, run lift and work on speed for football next year. My coaches tell me that I will get a lot more playing time if I work on Wide Receiver, as they tell me that with my speed and agility, I will very likely be able to get those 30+ yard catches that our coaching staff loves to do. Very good chance that I could start as well if I pursue WR, and due to the fact that RB has no highlights due to rolling my ankle, I am going to switch my career to WR and get a great highlight film.

Study, Study, Study, get that GPA up as high as I can. I am going to buy some SAT/ACT prep books, and absolutely destroy the test when I need to take it. I am wondering about the best way to prepare for these tests, and how did your sons and daughters attain those perfect scores that got them into the Ivy’s. Because if I can get a near perfect test score, and set near perfect subject tests, my AI will skyrocket, and admissions will love it.

Maybe take the bullet and stay in CP to raise that GPA even more. Many people tell me of athletes who did not take a single Honors class and getting into Ivies and prestigious colleges, and the more that I read about AI, the more I want to do this. I miss the books that I read in English, the great teachers who challenged you and made you work harder, and the cute girls (love the shy intelligent girl, absolutely hate the hedonist cheerleader types that keep throwing themselves on me.) However I am aiming for my goal, and will be ready to drop that if CP will raise my GPA higher.

I therefore ask if I should amend my plan in any way, and what the best method of studying for the standardized tests are. I also am trying to prepare for a real stupid decision that I am considering, and it’s to go all in and slam several AP/Honor classes. My teachers are extremely helpful, and I get to meet once a week with a teacher who is helping me study the learning strategies that AP kids use, and I might be able to take up to 4 AP’s next year, + a few Honors. Very dangerous, but admissions will love that CP-AP jump. and it shows hard work.

Feel free to discuss with me on my strategy, and give me some pointers that will assist me. Thank you CC for taking the time to read this, and I hope that your experience will prepare me for the hard road ahead.

2

Not a chance in hell you will get in Harvard and you know it. The only pointers I can give you is to stay away from AP classes since they obviously are beyond your ability. Keep your GPA high with classes you can manage and hope to get in your State U. I don’t know of one kid at our school who wasn’t starting that even played football on a college team at the lowest level.

Paul if you are trolling, please seek your thrills elsewhere. No need to start with this nonsense and waste everyone’s time and effort just for laughs.

3

@riverbirch‌ that’s a bit excessive… what if he’s not trolling… then you’re just making a sophomore feel bad
@Paul13375‌ pretty much everything he said was right though. Don’t expect to get into any Ivy-like school, let alone one of the Big Three, with a 3.0 in regular classes.

4

Zenith it really isn’t excessive at all…go back and read all his previous posts and other’s responses and see that this is all one big joke.
You obviously aren’t well acquainted with Paul’s postings as many of us are on CC.

5

@Zenithar143 It might have been a bit excessive on the part of @riverbirch, if this were the OP’s first post. But it is not, and OP has already heard responses of this nature. I agree that it will be a tough road to Harvard.

6

@skieurope‌ thanks for pointing that out now I feel stupid lol
@riverbirch‌ my bad bro

7

@Zenithar143‌ , don’t feel stupid. Without context, it did seem excessive. :slight_smile:

8

Yes, no need to feel stupid at all. I would NEVER have posted what I did if this was his first post on the subject.

9

paul: you’re still mastering self denial. I believe long ago you said you felt compelled to get to Harvard or another similar school through football b/c you didn’t see your own finances being able to get you to college. Well, now several months have passed and your hoped-for ability to be a top scholar in your HS (after getting multiple Cs and Ds your freshman year) hasn’t emerged. Somehow it got locked in your head that it was all (harvard football with great fin aid) or nothing. I assume you don’t go to a tiny HS. Don’t others go on to college or community college? Are they rolling in the dough? Or is your school just full of alumni who have gotten free-rides playing football at colleges and no one else goes to college?

Why don’t you do yourself a favor and ask what your real goal is? Affordable college, right? That’s a great goal. Now why don’t you speak to your guidance counselors or other people in your life who have gone to college and ask how they did it and what routes they might recommend you take?

Spending another second analyzing Harvard’s Academic Index is just… I can’t even think of a fitting word …

BTW: your taking the SAT2 Spanish is a waste of money. 1) The actual schools you’ll be targeting won’t require SAT2s. 2) you’re a native speaker so why would it be impressive? All you’ll be able to show is that once in college, you won’t need to take a foreign language. It’s akin to saying you deserve a reward for being right-handed.

Also, your view of your GPA is false. While you hopefully WILL hit a 3.5 in your upcoming semesters, your transcript will show your cumulative GPA. For argument’s sake, let’s say it’s been three semesters of (2 semesters freshman year, current semester soph yr) 2.5. Then you improve and hit your 3.5 for the next 4 semesters (when college apps are due). Your cumulative GPA will be 3.07. Take off the blinders, paul.

10

Fitting word would be that it’s asinine to spend another second analyzing Harvard’s Academic Index…

11

“Take the bullet and stay in cp classes.” Yes, you will be taking the bullet and probably not get in to any top schools. If you can’t succeed in a few honors/AP classes, how do you think you’ll be able to transition to Harvard? (Not to mention your peers who have taken every AP class available and never received a B) Equally important to GPA is class rigor, not all 4.0’s are created equal. Don’t rely on sports, that’s probably not going to happen. How many players do they need and how many options do they have? A letter from your coach will have no bearing. Next don’t go for perfect scores, looking at your academic record, it’s not going to happen. C’s and D’s do not look good no matter how you twist it, upward trend or not. If you’re in a fairly large HS, chances are you aren’t in top 10% (or 25%). If you view 4 APs as dangerous you should definitely be questioning if you can handle Harvards work load. My senior year consists of 5 APs, 2IBs, 1 Honors, 1 CP class (blocked with AP), and I find myself bored because it is challenging enough and full of free time. These are the type of students you’ll be with. Not to be too critical but you need to really step back and be realistic, you’re setting yourself up for failure. Don’t go for a 2400, it won’t happen. Start off going for ~1900 and once you get that then go for a 2000 and so on. Don’t go for a 3.5 either, cumulative GPAs go up slowly. If you currently have almost a 3.0 and end sophomore year with a 3.4/3.5, your cum GPA will go to like a 3.1. You would need to get basically a 4.0 for last two years of high school to get 3.5. Taking AP classes will make your cumulative GPA jump a fair amount (at first). However, if you struggled in previous weighted classes, don’t go from all CP to a lot of APs/honors, you’d just be setting yourself up for failure. I also beg to differ that AP students don’t have “different learning strategies,” they’re just different strategies. Their habits can’t be learned in a few week or months, they’re developed over many years of trial and error. Give up on Harvard, it is not going to happen (no one can say this with certainty but you’re chances are the limit of 1/x as x approaches infinity). The sooner you can accept that the better. Focus your time on school and more reasonable universities. Best of luck

12

@Paul13375,

I see that you kept to your cimmitment to stay off CC until this month. I see also that you appear to have worked really hard on your studies, and with some success.

Good for you. I commend you for these things.

However, the results that you’re achieving, as others have pointed out, are not consistent with admission to Harvard or any other Ivy League, or indeed, any highly-selective college or university.

Look at your actual results. Step back and ask the question, “What do these results tell me about myself?”

Your GPA should tell you that when you work hard at your studies, you get decent grades. Not fantastic grades, but decent grades. The fact that you couldn’t make it in your AP classes doesn’t tell you that you’re a procrastinator, or that you did something wrong, or somehow failed. It tells you that you’re not intellectually equipped to do the work. Your results on the football field tell you that you may be a great fellow, but you’re not a great football player.

In sum, you’re a so-so student, and a so-so athlete. If Harvard (or any highly-selective school) were stupid enough to admit you, you would fail out within the first semester. Fortunately, there are no highly-selective schools that would act that foolishly.

I imagine you will reject what I have to say, and come up with some rationalization or idiotic theory why you might be the exception to the rule. I figure you’ll reject what other posters are telling you. I don’t think you’re yet ready to accept reality. But, you ask for advice, and I’ll give you a little, so that you will have done the things you need to have done in preparation for the time when you will have no choice but to give up your strong delusions: keep doing what you’re doing - trying to do your best in your schoolwork, calibrating the work that you attempt with your ability to complete it successfully, participating in sports, and maybe going out on a date or two with one of those girls who are throwing themselves at you. :wink:

13

I apoligize for my typos in previous post, I wrote it at 1:40 AM on my phone. Tip: don’t buy a veinte starbs at 9pm and not get it decaf. Anyway, I just wanted to add a few things. “Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you’ll land among the stars.” If you push yourself to get in to Harvard, even though you won’t, you’ll be in a much better place.

(This following part is similar to what @notjoe‌ said) You have one cognition, “Harvard is my dream school and where I am going to go,” and the other cognition that “I know I’m going to get denied, there’s zero chance.” Since these two cognitions are in conflict with each other you’re trying to rationalize the 2nd with your foolish belief “I’ll be the one exception, I can do it.” Because of this, you will likely deny everything we say and continue to believe your unintelligent third thought (I’m the exception). If you can find away to read this post without shutting it out, look up “cognitive dissonance ,” and read in to the other methods to reduce it. The hardest method will be to remove the cognition (Harvard acceptance) but it will be the most effective

14

^ Great posts everyone, I am pleasantly surprised that everyone recalls me :), looks like I’m famous. Well I see that we seem to be at the same point, however I do not intend for this to be a war like it was several months back. I will like to start with the truth that my guidance counselors told me, and I do not like it.

The truth: Paul, all of us have gone into debt to go into college, it’s simply a part of life. Well that I refuse to go to college, for I do not want debt. A poster above me said affordable, I want free. That’s where this Harvard fanaticism comes from, if I get admitted (that’s if :smile: ), I will be able to go either free or very cheap. I really do not like college, I am tired of this inferior system trying it’s best to educate me, and I am tired of being expected to get the scraps. I won’t lie that I want the best for myself, therefore a long time ago I simply asked, what is the best of the best that I can except from the college system, and that’s where the Harvard goal was born.

I thank the patience of everyone, as for you it may become annoying trying to steer this boy that does not want to change his mind. Therefore I propose a different way to deal with my situation, and it does not involve forum war. I wish to simply know about these higher up school, how the tick, what makes them work and what seems to be so special about them. I also wish to understand why you have to basically become a peasant to attend a ‘normal’ college, and why has this system become so terrible.

Now the last poster above said something about cognitive dissonance, I will look it up as soon as I’m done with this post, however I am going to assume that it is to get my crazy thoughts out of my head. It is very interesting, but I am going to look it up.

So one question, why do I have to settle for average. Shouldn’t adults be saying something like this (Ok son, you have a very tough road ahead of you, whatever happens, know that hard work and tenacity will carry you through everything.) That sounds motivational, it mentions the difficulty of my goal, and tells me to simply go and do it. These posts are more of a experiment of the adult psyche that I am attempting to do more than anything. It is very intriguing.

The big thing is that many of you had children who have attended let’s say the best of the best, or you yourselves are alumni of the best of the best. Is this a club that only the best can attend? Is this a place that only a certain kind of person may warrant entry, and everyone else must be casted out no matter the cost?

I also have many questions about the system that I am in. I remember asking myself, what if the questions that they gave on the test had something to do with topics that I just know, I will easily get 100’s right? Is this really a system of knowledge, or simply indoctrination, a way to separate the people who simply ‘are in the zone’ from the people who just don’t want to get it?

Or could it be that we want everyone to feel down, get that normal feeling ingrained deep in the mind before our children become adults, thus ensuring a obedient class of people for the ‘elites’ which we then tell are the best of the best because we went here, thus we have legitimacy to rule over the average?

Many questions, however I thank everyone that you have received me well, and not with anger or rage. Second to last poster tells me to wake up to reality, the reality that I will just be average, that I do not deserve to be great because don’t get a 100 on everything? If that’s the reality that I must face, well then I love myself for thinking highly of me, I love the fact that I believe what I want to believe and It feels so close. I love that feeling that you just seem to be one with everything.

Anyways, I still seek your guidance. Please respond to this post with your justification for me to step off the high horse and pursue the normal and the common. Please bring evidence, explanations, you can cite if you want. I will respond in kind, no hostility, just intellectuals having a debate.

Thank you

15

tl;dr.

16

“Well that I refuse to go to college, for I do not want debt. A poster above me said affordable, I want free. That’s where this Harvard fanaticism comes from, if I get admitted (that’s if :smile: ), I will be able to go either free or very cheap. I really do not like college, I am tired of this inferior system trying it’s best to educate me, and I am tired of being expected to get the scraps. I won’t lie that I want the best for myself, therefore a long time ago I simply asked, what is the best of the best that I can except from the college system, and that’s where the Harvard goal was born.”

Most guys who play football quickly realize that even if they never make the starting positions, a very basic lesson is learned: the harder you work and the more effort you put into the conditioning and practices, improvements (and possibly benefits) follow. My friends at college who were superb athletes had an amazing work ethic. (I suppose those who didn’t share this trait were those who weren’t recruited to be collegiate athletes)

Thus your attitude is a head scratcher. You say you WANT:

free or very cheap and very good education

But when faced with working very very hard (because your goal is quite lofty – I assume you know this) on the path to a cheap/free and good education – and you’re faced with an uphill climb and setbacks, you then call it an inferior system designed to only shunt you to the “scraps.”

Let’s look at your sports again – sorry to hear about your ankle BTW: but I think the example should be telling. Who starts on your teams and others? Guys who have combined a natural size and talent with hard work (weight room, studying film, knowing plays like the back of their hand, being able to read the field before and during the gameplay) – those who possess these attributes to the max are your team’s best players.

A 5’ 2" guy who weighs 135 lbs, no matter how much he memorizes the plays and can read the other team – isn’t going to have much longevity in HS football. The super quick 300 lb tackle who is ill-disciplined, false starts all the time, has poor attitude, barely is academically eligible, doesn’t learn his team’s blocking schemes becomes a liability, not a foundational player. You need a combination of the top attributes to be an elite player.

Would the coach who benches the 300 lb attitude player be doing the kid any favors if he doesn’t try to eliminate the bad discipline, bad attitude and poor work ethic? Of course not. It’s coach’s responsibility. But that can only go so far. If the player doesn’t buy into it, should it surprise anyone if the tackle eventually gets benched in favor of others who possess the positive attributes? The player has the bulk of the responsibility – it’s his fault. Not the coach’s.

Paul: you’re the one getting Cs and Ds. You’re the one having to drop out of honors courses. You’re the one with poor study habits and procrastination. But you’re the one who wants to be the President of the USA (for other readers, this is actually Paul’s goal) or a CEO of a Fortune 500 company after attending Harvard.

What’s different from you and the 300 lb tackle? You’re not 16 years old probably and the whole world is awry – but not you. You have all the answers. You think your goals are just fine – but your high school “system”, the advice of your GCs and teachers, basically everything around you to be FAULTY. Now isn’t that something?

I hesitated to even type this but I’ll depart from your ventures on CC from here on out.

17

I never said that I was not working, I just said that I hate the system that I’m in. Victimizing and complaining are 2 different things.

The problem that I have is that the ADVICE, yes advice that my Guidance Counselors and teachers have is to forget about Ivies. Now that’s not bad advice, I really should be focusing on smaller colleges if I was a sane person. But when a guidance counselor tells you that just take a loan, you will pay it back in like 20 years, they kind of lose all credibility.

My position right now is either get in the absolute tip top for excellent financial aid (HYP etc), or don’t go to any college. It really is not much clearer than that.

I read about stats, it HAS happened. Think gibby once told me the absolute minimum GPA was a 3.0, which when I get a few more a’s will be my average for freshman and sophomore year. I already beat that huddle of numbers, I now just need to shine up the application enough to get accepted.

Also, since when are my goals bad?

18

“But when a guidance counselor tells you that just take a loan, you will pay it back in like 20 years, they kind of lose all credibility.” and this makes you frankly insane. Like you’re above it all. Best of luck to you Paul. Please sign the FERPA waiver on your Harvard recommendation letters. You’ll be needlessly insulted by what your teacher really write about you and your suitability for a school for Harvard.

We’ve been around this too many times already – cling on to those goals until your dying days – you’re free to do so.

19

It’s not so much that they are “bad”, Paul, but since you are determined to use everyone elses money to accomplish them, I think I can speak for a number of us when I say that there are lots of other students we’d rather give it to.

20

@Paul13375‌,

You’re not going to get into a highly-selective college or university because you’re not making it happen.

You don’t have the combination of ability and grit.

You set out some goals in the fall - get a 3.5 or better in multiple AP courses, be a stand-out on the varsity football team.

The results are in: You’re struggling to maintain a 3.0 average in regular classes, and you didn’t play a minute on the varsity.

You set out lofty goals, but they don’t happen. For whatever reason, you don’t get them done.

You don’t have any follow-through. You rationalize by increasingly back-loading your goals:

“Well, I didn’t get a 3.5 in four AP courses this semester, but I’ll get a 3.4 in regular classes for the year, and I’ll do four APs NEXT year and really kill 'em!”

“Well, I didn’t get on the varsity this year, but I’ll play like a ‘god’ next year!”

“Well, I’ve never been very good at standardized tests, but I’m going to destroy the SAT!”

All your Harvard-worthy accomplishments are on the ever-receding horizon.

The sad thing is, you actually have accomplished some stuff. You’re improving your academic record to the point where you might get into a college that isn’t strictly open admissions. Maybe. You seem to be having a good time with sports, and seem to have improved your relationship with your coach. These are good things.

But you don’t really have the passion of a great academic, a true student. Academic setbacks don’t cause you to re-double your efforts, but rather to give up, to take a less-difficult road. That’s because the academic stuff really isn’t all that important to you. It’s not really do-or-die for you to do well in your AP classes, because, well, they’re merely means to ends for you - the end being the mirage of Harvard. As I said, you don’t really have grit.

Maybe you should take a different tack. You’re not a good student, perhaps you should consider dropping the idea of colleges and thinking of a trade or craft that you’d enjoy. Are you good fixing things? Are you good with your hands? A friend of mine, his son graduated from a very prestigious, top-ranked public high school, with honors. But like you, he wasn’t a very enthusiastic student. He took a certification as a steam-fitter, and is doing very well for himself, and he’s not quite 20.

If you do really want to go to college, no one here blames you for wanting to be debt-free when you’re done. Here are some ways to accomplish that goal that are actually possible and available to you:

  1. Start with community college. Community colleges are often very inexpensive, and for low-income families, the amount of federal grant money available may actually cover the entire cost of tuition. In other words, you may be eligible to get your first two years of college FREE.

In most states, success in community college guarantees admission to public state colleges, where tuition for residents is usually very low, as well. I ran the net price calculator for my state flagship university. For families with $60K or less in income, the total net cost of attendance, after federal and university financial aid (all grants - no loans) is $4,200 per year for commuter students. That’s a part-time job at minimum wage. So - two years free, two years that can be easily paid for with part-time work.

  1. Another path, after two years of community college, is to work your way through school, attending on a part-time basis. Then, your degree program will take longer than four years in total, but you can graduate debt-free. Although, for folks who are from low-income families, based on available aid in many places, I don't know why someone would bother.
  2. If costs are your overriding concern, you should look for colleges that are low-cost. There are a few out there with very modest tuition rates and costs, enabling you to work your way through school. You can google lists of them.
  3. ROTC. If you qualify, the government will pay for your degree, you'll serve about four years active duty and four years reserve duty in the military, and if you show any promise, it's quite likely that they'll send you to graduate school on their dime, as well.

These are all practical, obtainable paths for you to go get a college degree without incurring massive amounts of debt. These are four paths that will actually leave you with a degree and no debt whatsoever, IF YOU FOLLOW THROUGH. And unlike the hallucination that you’re going to Harvard, you could achieve them.

If you really wanted to.