I’m interested in computer science, but not decided on the Wharton side for M&T. If I were to go to Yale, I would pursue a biomedical engineering and computer science double major. My primary goal coming out of college is to become the best engineer, but very passionate about entrepreneurship as a career path.
Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!
Just to clarify, my main concern is with academics and campus culture at both schools, with grade inflation, undergraduate focus, etc.
@sheilsarda For all these areas (CS, bioengineering, CS, entrepreneurship and business) Penn is stronger. Also specifically the M&T program is a really unique program that opens amazing doors in business and tech.
If you see that you are not interested in the Wharton part anymore, then you can get out of M&T and do a dual major in CS and Bioengineering.
Unless you rally fit in better at Yale and you cannot see yourself at Penn, I would pick Penn because it is stronger for engineering and business and also because of the unique strengths of the M&T program.
Campus culture and vibe is different between the two schools. Penn has a strong pre-professional element (business,s engineering), it focuses more on the application of knowledge and interdisciplinary education. It also ha a more vibrant social life and is located in a big city but also has a defined camps.
Yale is more intellectual, has that old-school classic ivy-league/hogwarts type of vibe, is located in a much smaller city. The most popular major at Yale is history. Also it has a smaller undergrad population than Penn.
@Penn95 Thank you for the edit, that answers my question about culture.
@sheilsarda I faced the same dilemma when making my college choice. I ultimately chose Penn because i felt the engineering and business offerings were superior and also because Penn was still strong overall and I felt I would have a well-rounded education. And i did. The Penn curriculum is very flexible and you can take courses in all undergraduate and graduate schools at Penn and there is still room to take electives. Also it is strong across the board so I don’t think you would be getting a more well-rounded education at Yale. That said the academic focus at Yale is different. More theoretical. In terms of grade inflation, Yale a more grade-inflated.
@Penn95 What do you think about Yale being more undergraduate-focused in their STEM departments, given that it’s much smaller than that of Penn.
@sheilsarda Personally i feel undergrad focus is a rather vague term. Penn engineering has about 435 students per class while Yale has 108. Still you will have access to professors, TAs at both. I never felt i didn’t have access to my professors at Penn and all classes are taught by professors who also hold regular office hours. The fact that there are more students interested in STEM meant more STEM- oriented student organizations and more like-minded people to learn from. Penn engineering is still at a very manageable size (435 per class is not a lot) but also quite diverse because of its size. Also i feel the research opportunities and stem-related extracurricular involvement are more robust and diverse.
Difference in faculty strengths for CS are negligible: (US News Ranks: #19 vs #20). Biomedical engineering at Yale it is a small program, but builds on its world leading Biology, Medicine and Chemistry departments, which are all top 10-12 in the world, and the research by faculty is cutting edge. (Check out Mark Saltzmann and Andre Levchenko’s research, as well the the Yale West Campus among other things). I presume Biomedical Engineering at Penn isn’t an option for you, but the curriculum requirements are broadly similar anyway.
If you’re interested in entrepreneurship, Wharton definitely has a much larger group of people with like minded interests, but Yale also sees its fair share of startups. The Yale Entrepreneurial Institute gives out tons of money each year and there are lots of companies that start off as collaborations between undergraduates, medical school, law school and business school students.
If you want to be the best engineer, I would suggest Yale even though Penn might have a larger engineering program, because the Jerome Fisher program has a huge number of requirements that are economics/finance based. At Yale you could devote that time to engineering/math/science courses instead if you wish.
The campus culture at both schools is mostly defined by the mix of majors. At Yale more students tend to be involved in the arts and government as well as public service. At Penn, you’ll find more students interested in finance, business, etc. There will be lots of science geeks at both places at well. Lastly, Penn has a much larger number of students (24,000+) vs Yale (12,000), and Yale also has a residential college program, which might mean a smaller, more intimate atmosphere for undergrads.
@sheilsarda For entrepreneurship, you would have all the Wharton resources but also Penn engineering offers an engineering entrepreneurship minor.
Here is a report on the colleges with the biggest/most successful entrepreneurial activity:
https://files.pitchbook.com/pdf/PitchBook_Universities_Report_2015_2016_Edition.pdf
Biomedical engineering is definitely an option for you, and it builds on Penn’s world renowned hospital and medical school. There is a lot of cutting edge research happening through collaborations between the engineering and medical school at Penn. For example: https://news.upenn.edu/news/university-pennsylvania-celebrate-launch-penn-center-health-devices-and-technology
If you want to be the best engineer, I feel it is best to go where the most engineering opportunities are available. The M&T program has a lot of business requirements, it is dual degree after all, but if you see that you are no longer interested in the business part you can just drop it and focus on engineering.
This was a article about Yale CS: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-06/want-a-job-in-silicon-valley-after-yale-good-luck-with-that
At the end of the day however, fit is very important. I feel the biggest point that you d have to understand is the difference is academic culture and student interests between the two schools. Both are excellent choices.
Where do you see yourself fitting best?
@sheilsarda another Yale vs Penn thread you might find useful
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1985777-yale-vs-penn-p1.html
@reuynshard @Penn95 Thank you so much! So many good reasons on both sides.
^ It’s worth noting that Penn95 (if the name is correct) has graduated from Penn more than 2 decades ago. A lot has changed in both universities since then.
The Bloomberg article gets several things wrong (especially the title). I have a son each at Yale and Stanford, and virtually all my son’s peers who wanted silicon valley internships got one. For instance, Facebook, Google and Microsoft were among the top-10 employers at the school last year, while several others are in CS grad programs at Berkeley, MIT and Columbia.
(http://ocs.yale.edu/connect/statistics).
Yale is also expanding both it’s engineering and CS faculty, and they have already grown by 20-30% across all departments over the last few years.
@ny23456 this is wrong I graduated from Penn within the last 4 years. The 95 on my username isn’t my graduation year, it was just random when making a username.
What are your preferences in terms of campus culture?
@nw2this in general, I prefer a structured and driven environment that motivates me to work. I enjoy meeting new people on campus, but tend to gel with people who have similar interests. My main concern with yale and Penn respectively, is Yale’s residential college system forcing me to stay with random roommates for a year who’ll probably not be in my major given how small engineering is,and at Penn, it’s the extreme rigor and workload of the program creating a toxic environment that discourages friendship and collaboration.
Are my concerns well-founded?
@ny23456 thanks for the clarification. What did your son like most about Yale? Also, how would you compare his experience to that at Penn?
@sheilsarda Penn is rigorous but not extremely so. Also there is no toxic environment that discourages friendship and collaboration. Quite the opposite, people are very friendly and actually collaborate with each other a lot and help out each other. Penn students are competitive with themselves, and like to push themselves to achieve more, but they are not competitive/cutthroat against each other. Especially engineering students are highly collaborative. there is the mentality that engineering is tough and we are all in this together and we are all better off helping each other to get through it. The M&T program specifically provides really amazing guidance and mentorship. There is an entire M&T office at Penn dedicated to providing professional and academic guidance only to M&T students and also organizing M&T student and alumni events very often. The M&T community is a small,intimate and very close-knit community both on campus and with its alumni base.
Regarding your concerns about the Yale Residential system, can you designate what kind roommates you would prefer?
They do take into consideration general preferences, but the process is essentially randomized for freshman, and you’re assigned either a single or double in a suite of around five or six.
Hmm i see.
Look, at the end of the day you need to evaluate where you will be happier and more able to reach your potential as a student and a person.
Feel free to ask me any more questions about Penn.
And let us know what you end up choosing!
@penn95 were you rejected by Yale? It would explain a lot. I can summarize the vast majority of your posts as follows: “Stanford top in the country, now eclipsing Harvard, Yale way overrated, Penn better than you think, UChicago not as good as its fans think”.
Most of your posts are very long on unsupported assertions but short on facts, from what I can tell. @reuynshard’s post is a helpful corrective. Yale’s bioengineering (which is, after all, what OP asked about) and medical school are quite strong.