<p>If you are thinking west coast:</p>
<p>Santa Clara
Gonzaga
USF</p>
<p>bpayne: "I don't know what Jesuitness means other than abandoning Catholic roots, which schools like Georgetown have been doing for a while."</p>
<p>You really have no idea what you are talking about.</p>
<p>I'm not so sure, Weenie. I think bpayne1 DOES know. For conservative Catholics, Jesuit schools are simply not a choice anymore. Well, that might be a little bit too strong a statement, but I think it definitely holds true for Georgetown, if not for the others. UDallas, Franciscan U of Steubenville, and some of the newer schools (Ave Maria in FLA, Thomas Aquinas in CA, Christendom in VA) have captured the hearts of young Catholics who actually defend the Faith.</p>
<p>i think you and bpayne couldn't figure out your left from your right, quite frankly. do you guys even know what the jesuits are?</p>
<p>Good thread but some misunderstandings out there. Georgetown is perhaps the least Jesuit and most secular of all the Jesuit colleges. At least one book, written by a conservative for conservatives searching for schools where they wont be pc'd to death by liberal agendas, states that Holy Cross is also, very sadly, losing its Jesuit identity. What people mean by that is generally the presence of Jesuits in the Administration as well as the number of Jesuit scholars and teachers on campus. It is widely reported that Fordham has the most Jesuits on its campus. It is also one of, but not the only, Jesuit schools that has a moderate to conservative culture, relative to its neighbors NYU and Columbia and some other Jesuit schools....such as Holy Cross which is decidedly more liberal by some anecdotal reports. I am no expert on most of these schools and only do light reading on them. </p>
<p>I do have direct knowledge of Fordham, Georgetown, Holy Cross, BC, Loyola Maryland, St. Louis Univ., Loyola Marymount (LA), Gonzaga University, Seattle University, Santa Clara University. This from personal experience, visiting, family, friends and coworkers/colleagues. Of course, its all opinion and YOUR experience may be different. Ditto your perceptions.</p>
<p>Even among the Jesuit schools there is fierce competition for a sort of internal and unpublished ranking. St. Louis Univ. consistently states in its materials that is among the top 5 Jesuit colleges in America. Perhaps they are simply deducing that from the US News and World Report rankings. But not all lists are created equal (no slam on SLU). There are national universities, masters/regional universities, LAC's, etc.</p>
<p>Out west, I know specifically that Santa ClaraU, SeattleU, GonzagaU, and Loyola Marymount (LA) all enjoy outstanding reputations as genuine Jesuit colleges and produce top flight graduates in many fields of study and have produced a number of Rhodes, Fullbright, and Truman scholars. In my view, its pickem between em. In other words, all essentially equal, though one may have a program or better contacts than another. Boeing just gave 2million to Seattle University's engineering program. Not small change.</p>
<p>The University of San Francisco is also Jesuit but I dont have any info on them and how they are regarded in the Bay Area. Bill Russell is a famous graduate of USF. Elgin Baylor went to Seattle Univ. and took them to the Final Four twice in the late 50's, only to lose to Kentucky.</p>
<p>Midwest, I think St. Louis U is probably the better of the three, because of its nationally recognized flight school and its number one ranking in health law. It has a superb medical school and law school. Marquette and Loyola Chicago are pickem, from what I know.</p>
<p>East Coast things get HIGHLY competitive between Fordham, BC, Holy Cross, Georgetown and to some extent Loyola Maryland and Xavier. If you go by USNWR rankings its probably Georgetown, BC, Holy Cross, Fordham and St. Louis U, in that order. Some of that is sports notoriety, some of that is endowment notoriety, some of that is library notoriety (Fordham's Walsh Library is ranked number 5 in the nation), some of that is faculty notoriety, some of that is peer assessment, some of that is famous celebrity graduates. </p>
<p>Rankings in general are highly questionable and frankly irrelevant. What is important is that you pick a college...any college, that is suitable for your interests, personality, cultural and spiritual needs, affordability, etc. In other words, FIT, FIT, FIT.</p>
<p>Jesuits teach people how to think, not what to think. They have been superb educators almost from inception and notably in the last 150 years or so. Most of them have terminal degrees...PhD's. I know a prominent Jesuit who has a PhD from Yale Divinity and a law degree as well. Some even have medical degrees. They are simply amazing and unique men among the priesthood. </p>
<p>What is often asked of me, and for which I am at a complete loss to answer or discern is the difference between a Jesuit and a Dominican or Franciscan or Sulpician or Benedictine...in so far as colleges in the United States. I am talking about Providence, Notre Dame, Villanova, U Dallas, U Dayton, U San Diego, etc. Anyone?</p>
<p>Notre Dame is Congregation of the Holy Cross, it's French, not Irish. Villanova is run by the Augustinians. And USD is a diocesan school. Those ones I know off the top of my head.</p>
<p>I might not know what I'm talking about, but is Georgetown not the "Catholic" university that took all of the crucifixes out of its classrooms? The university that has priests openly preaching heresy from the pulpit? Yeah, I don't know sounds questionable to me. </p>
<p>Without looking it up, I believe that the Jesuits were founded by St. Ignatius of Loyola, and they are officially called the Society of Jesus. And yes, they have a reputation for being great teachers. I could probably even name some Jesuit high schools: Loyola LA, St. Ignatius SF, Jesuit Carmichael, Jesuit Portland, Jesuit Dallas, DeMatha might be, Scranton Prep, Georgetown prep, Bellermine Prep, and there are three dozen others, those are just the ones I know. If anyone cares to enlighten me as to "what" the Jesuits are please do so. Apparently, weenie and jags know more than I do.</p>
<p>THanks.....thats right...now I recall that Notre Dame is Holy Cross Fathers and that Villanova is Augustinian.....a great school, I might add. I know a lot about Jesuits, I was more interested in the colleges run by other Orders.</p>
<p>I think the decline of Catholicism is a bit off topic here, but clearly has numerous causes and indicators. I do not think "...the "Catholic" university that took all of the crucifixes out of its classrooms? The university that has priests openly preaching heresy from the pulpit?" has much to do with anything.</p>
<p>St. Louis University Hospital builds large research facility, aims to fill it with new, top-notch faculty. The story, in today's St. Louis Post Dispatch:</p>
<p>I'm ignorant about intra-Catholic disputes, but I know one of the people who sits on St. Louis University's governing board, and I have met Lawrence Biondi, president of the university. They are not politically "liberal" in the sense that most people use the word. They are very committed to expanding the research role of the university, and are working actively on adding new, highly focused graduate level programs.</p>
<p>Holy Cross and Notre Dame have 2 of the best alumni giving rates in the country with HC at over 53%. Both schools have large endowments,</p>
<p>From Georgetown's web site "Crucifixes and Religious Symbolism. The University has placed a wide variety of crosses and crucifixes, with descriptions of their particular significance, in all Main Campus classroom buildings, with the exception of the Bunn Intercultural Center, where there are rotating symbols of the various faith traditions represented on campus. Daily Mass. The Mass is celebrated two times a day Monday through Friday in Georgetown's historic Dahlgren Chapel of the Sacred Heart. Six Sunday Masses are regularly filled with students, faculty, staff, and visitors to campus. Mass is celebrated daily and on Sundays at the Medical Center's Hospital Chapel and the Law Center's St. Thomas More Chapel. In addition, daily Mass is celebrated three times a week in the Medical School's St. Ignatius Chapel. Daily Mass is televised throughout the Georgetown Hospital. Liturgies area offered in English, Korean, French, German, Italian and Spanish."
Sounds like Georgetown's rumored removal of all crucifixes is not reality.</p>
<p>Midmo:</p>
<p>Fr. Lawrence Biondi, S.J. is a great man, a dynamo, and brilliant strategist who has brought St. Louis University forward during his tenure as President. The campus is beautiful, he has grown the infrastructure, buildings and endowment.</p>
<p>No, I would not call him Liberal. Its a great school.</p>
<p>As for the number of masses offered at Georgetown on campus or in the hospital that is a great thing. I am speaking of the teaching faculty and the decline of the Jesuit influence therein. I didnt go to Georgetown and know only from anecdotal comments and remarks in books about its falling Jesuit influence. If I am incorrect about that, then I stand to be corrected.</p>
<p>Whoever said Holy Cross wasn't Jesuit was very wrong.</p>
<p>I think Georgetown is trying to be all things to all people. It has Ivy League envy, so it tries to emulate all things Ivy, except for its basketball program. It feels the burden of being the top school in Washington DC, and tries to make the most of that by not alienating the many non-Catholic DC elite. It will occasionally play the Jesuit card, but only when it's convenient.</p>
<p>For Jesuit colleges that are still pretty Catholic, I'd recommend Marquette, Scranton, and St. Louis.</p>
<p>Providence is the only college run by Dominican friars in North America. It's a little on the conservative side, evidenced by such things as banning Vagina Monologues on campus, parietals (restricted visits by members of opp. sex to dorms), dorms by gender, rather restrictive general requirements (2 sem religion, 2 sem philosophy AND Western Civ which is 5 credits per semester for 2 years).</p>
<p>Speaking of Loyola Marymount in Los Angeles, though it is a Jesuit institution, on a recent tour my D and I were quite clearly told that no one would feel out of place if they were not Catholic. Masses are never mandatory, no required classes in Catholicism etc. That is all well and good for the non-Catholic but for this Catholic family it was a little off-putting that a Catholic institution would want to distance itself so freely from it's Catholic roots. I think this is one reason that Notre Dame is SO popular with Catholics...they really embrace that identity and celebrate it.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ajcunet.edu/%5B/url%5D">http://www.ajcunet.edu/</a></p>
<p>the Jesuit College Website</p>
<p>Why would it be offputting? Do you want your child guilted into going to mass? Do you want your child to go to college and learn simply more about what they grew up with, or to learn more about the rest of the worlds religions?</p>
<p>Does a Catholic just need to be around other "Catholics" to feel at home?</p>
<p>And what do we mean by "really Catholic"- strictness, sprituality, service, community work, going to mass, walking on your knees, latin mass...</p>
<p>Does a true Catholic doesn't need mandatory mass, or mandatory classes...they will opt to go on their own, which actually makes it more meaningful</p>
<p>I can't even imagine mandatory church, that is pretty scary to me, for a college student</p>
<p>My D was raised Catholic, and now is not so much, but she loved the Jesuit way of teaching the whole person, the service, the being of the world, the openminded approach to education, discussion, etc.</p>
<p>I didnt say Holy Cross was not Jesuit, I said it is losing its Jesuit identity and taking the path of Georgetown....and is very liberal. My source was a recent book analyzing schools for conservatives. If its wrong, its not my fault.</p>
<p>For Jesuitness, Fordham ranks near the top with more Jesuits on campus and teaching than any other Jesuit school, I believe.</p>
<p>As for distancing oneself from Catholicism....that is a strong statement that I dont think the person on Loyola Marymount meant to say. For one thing, kids say silly things to impress people....and often they are wrong.</p>
<p>For another, just because mass is not mandatory (nor is it any Catholic college, not even Catholic University of America), does not mean it is distancing itself from the church and its teaching. These are colleges, not indoctrination camps or diocesan retreats. They are meant to foster higher learning by engaging students in thought, often related to making their opinions, religious values, and spirituality come to life in the real world through service to others. That is perhaps more Catholic than sitting in the front pew at Sunday Mass with a toothy grin and being holy for an hour a week.</p>