<p>school shopper: what I have found to be very helpful is emailing either a Hillel advisor or a local synagogue for feedback on Jewish population of schools that do not have a large population....hope that helps!</p>
<p>School shopper, I hope that you will get more accurate info but I can tell you a little about Duquesne. I live in Pgh and got my MBA from there 15 years ago. As a part-time night student, I did not participate on any on-campus activities so I can't tell you much. As an alumnus, I do get occasional emails about religious observances. It does have a very strong music education program. And, once she is on campus, if she decides to pursue more Jewish identity, the city of Pittsburgh has a very large Jewish population. The neighborhood a few blocks from my house (a quick bus ride from downtown where Duqusne is located) has a synagogue on every other street corner.</p>
<p>rodney -- I just noticed that you asked me a question weeks ago, but you seem to have answered it yourself.</p>
<p>I don't have any other magic answer, other than (a) visiting and asking around, or (b) limiting yourself to places where you know some people.</p>
<p>The only reason I said that the Hillel numbers were unreliable is that the last time I remember them coming up in a thread, some of them looked right, and some of them were just pure crazy and couldn't possibly be right. They were all based on local chapter reporting, and there was clearly no uniform standard about how to define who is a Jewish student. People speculated that some were looking around and saying, "About 1/4 of these people look Jewish"; some had some reasonably precise way of measuring (which also tended to rely on self-identification); and some were listing dues-paying Hillel members only.</p>
<p>My D absolutely refuses to even consider any schools that have no Jewish presence (either in the school itself or in the surrounding community). I guess I brainwashed her real good. ;)</p>
<p>I actually found the Hillel.org college finder to be a good first step to finding something about a Jewish population at a particular school. I really think that nothing can substitute for a campus visit where you just have to ask the questions of the administration, students and Hillel (if any).</p>
<p>In a case like this one, I would recommend that your D spend more than just a day or two at the college and get a feel as to what living there is like. We did that for the two schools that would have been a big difference in living styles for our third son. He loved one school, and decided that the other was not a fit. </p>
<p>I have friends who are Jewish whose children have gone to Catholic schools at every level from nursery school to law school. Didn't bother them or the kids one whit. But I also have Jewish friends for whom this is a concern. I can understand that. I would think twice about sending my child or going to a school or any commitment where it is geared for a particular religion. Though a Catholic, there are Catholic colleges that are not a fit for me as they are a bit too fundamental. The same with some fundamental Christian schools. However schools like Davidson, Wake Forest or a number of others that are based in religion for background but not practicing, I don't see any issue. </p>
<p>I went to a college that was nearly half Jewish in my day, and it was not an issue at all. I've taken courses at Catholic colleges and not noticed any religious overtone at all other than some of the art and architechture touches. Every one has their comfort zones in this area; some very sensitive, others hardly care and many of us in some range in between.</p>
<p>It depends on your son. Have him spend a couple of days on campus and see how he feels. It's very individual.
My S, who wasn't raised with any religion felt very comfortable in a Jesuit high school(80% Catholics) but he felt more uncomfortable at his college that had 30% Jewish students.</p>
<p>It depends on your son. Have him spend a couple of days on campus and see how he feels. It's very individual.
My S, who wasn't raised with any religion felt very comfortable in a Jesuit high school(80% Catholics) but he felt more uncomfortable at his college that had 30% Jewish students. For him I think it was more the cultural differences. But he found friends, Jewish and Christians alike.</p>
<p>As another Pittsburgher, I can echo that Duquesne pulls students from all faiths. Pittsburgh has a very active Jewish community that welcomes college students. It's my understanding that there are events for college students which pull from Duquesne, Pitt and Carnegie Mellon -- all of which are relatively close to each other. Pittsburgh was known in the past for having a wide variety of ethic neighborhoods (Squirrel Hill, near Oakland and the colleges, has a reputation for having a larger Jewish population). Although the traditional ethic borders between neighborhoods are blurring with time, Pittsburgh people remain extremely friendly and diverse. </p>
<p>My nonreligious freshman at a large state university was assigned a roommate who was born-again, and who spent the year trying to convert my kid. My kid said it was an extremely interesting experience, and that he will always remember accompanying his roommate to a prayer meeting (a new experience!), debating evolution (his roommate did not believe in evolution, and struggled intellectually with their required evolutionary bio class), and their discussions about premarital sex (the roommate was getting engaged to a young girl in his church). When the roommate objected to a sexy poster in their suite, the other guys respectfully agreed to remove it. Overall, I think the experience was positive for both roommates.</p>
<p>My point is that even at the public universities, kids have opportunities to learn about different faiths and to meet others with very different belief systems. It can be viewed as an opportunity, not a problem.</p>
<p>Your information was helpful and it is good to know about the surrounding area. I would like to clarify that I although I want to my daughter to attend a colege that has some Jewish kids, diversity within her school and social life is also highly valued. On the other hand, she has attended schools in Virginia her entire life where she has always been in the minoriy. I have been through this also with my son. Both who have a strong jewish identies argue that being "surrounded" by jews is not a top priority for them. It would be nice however, to not have to always be in the positin to defend and explain yourself and your customs. It is always good to not be the "only" one. If everything else were a match we would not rule it out. I know that throwing a kid into a highly Jewish populated school doesn't garuntee that they will make friends or even date other Jewish kids but I kind of feel that it is important to maximize the chances.
School Shopper
ps I kow about the Hillel site.</p>
<p>You probably know this, but American U and George Washington U have significant Jewish populations, and even Georgetown will have a much more significant Jewish presence than CUA (Georgetown has a Hillel, for example). They are also in much safer neighborhoods than CUA. I don't mean to bash CUA (in fact, I think it is a very good school for the right student), but why would a Jewish student desire to go to CUA over the others? I know that Georgetown is clearly harder to gain admissions to, but GW and AU are not going to be that more difficult to get into than CUA.</p>
<p>I'm sure your student would do just fine at Catholic U, Boston College, Fairfield U, Fordham U, Loyola, Villanova, or any other open-minded Catholic school. But I am puzzled about your motives. I guess it all depends upon how committed you are to Judaism, and how important it is to you that the religion continues into the next generation and beyond. </p>
<p>Many college kids meet their life partners during their undergraduate years, and by sending her to a religious Catholic university, you are stacking the deck against you. Why send her there? Don't you think it is like placing candy in front of a young child and warning she can only have a carrot?</p>
<p>I don't understand the logic of this. Why place her in a university setting that could cause her stress, make her feel like an outsider, and possibly, ultimately, choose to leave her own religion in the dust? There are many other, fine institutions that have larger Jewish populations and are not overtly religious. According to your reasoning, she might as well attend Oral Roberts or Brigham Young (if she were to be allowed to matriculate) and fight that battle, as well.</p>
<p>My line is, "I want Jewish grandchildren." While there are no guarantees in life, it strikes me that by sending her to Catholic University, you are tipping the balance in the wrong direction. But that's just me.</p>
<p>bonanza said: "but why would a Jewish student desire to go to CUA over the others?"
Writegirl said: "But I am puzzled about your motives"</p>
<p>Assuming these were meant for me to answer...</p>
<p>CUA is one of the few schools in the area that offers my son's major. The school itself has so much to offer, and continues to be first on his list. It's really a gorgeous campus! I was looking for information regarding being Jewish at CUA, and I do believe we've learned that he will not be uncomfortable there. He has been raised as a Jew in a diverse community, and has friends of many different faiths. He and I will be attending the upcoming CUA "admitted students" events in April. Assuming no red flags at that point, I think he will choose to attend CUA in the fall. </p>
<p>Thanks to everyone who gave opinions!</p>
<p>I admire kids and families who are open-minded. How important a place religion plays in their life and future is their decision, not ours. If it feels like a fit, and has the academics he wants, then I don't see a big problem. I also find the "motives" question a bit confusing.</p>
<p>I think by college age the vast majority of students are very respectful of their peers' differences, especially as far as religion is concerned. If the campus/student body was known for being heavily devout, or if religion (Catholicism) was a large part of the curriculum, I might be more concerned. I've never heard that about Catholic U, but hopefully admitted students day willl give him a better idea of the pros and cons.</p>
<p>Also, have you called the school to see if there is a Hillel or any other organization in place for jewish students?</p>
<p>D told me last night that one of her friends (Jewish) will be attending Catholic U in the fall. This girl is not religious, but has a very strong Jewish identity. Apparently it is not bothering her. It would, however, bother my D a lot. Neither decision is wrong, like everything else it is a matter of "fit".</p>
<p>Please let us know how you like Catholic! It's of great interest to my son and many of his friends, and we'd love feedback. They're juniors now, so would be great to hear from those who were accepted/going.</p>
<p>Now to dispel the myths of not fitting in.</p>
<p>My son and one of his best friends are very spiritual. They are going to be confirmed this year, and when I asked about the third part of their trio, I was told that he would not be getting confirmed, as he was an atheist, or at least an agnostic. </p>
<p>But you know what, it doesn't matter to them. They still love him like a brother. </p>
<p>So, while their faith is very important to them, and all three have gone to Catholic school all their life, they are not going to "disown" a friend because he has a different belief than them. And they don't try to convert him, either. </p>
<p>Let me tell you, kids today are amazing. If only some of us adults could learn from them.</p>
<p>Nobody else can tell you the answer, but I am wondering if you are asking the right questions here, those that would gain answers to guide a student making this choice. </p>
<p>I have every confidence that other modern Catholic students will fully accept a Jewish student and find him very interesting, too. Professors might value any input in a class especially where religion is being discussed and he can be the resident expert on customs and traditions. He'd be the "go-to" guy whenever someone has to figure out what to bring to a Jewish wedding or ceremony. It could be fun or very tiresome, maybe both. </p>
<p>When I've talked to Jewish students who attend Catholic high schools, they express that while they enjoy the intellectual rigor, sports and good discipline there, they also get weary of it. One girl tried to express how she often had to answer essays based on how the class was being taught, even though she vaguely recalled other approaches to the same Bible texts, taught to her in Jewish Sunday schools long ago. But she knew if she answered the Jewish way, the question wouldn't be marked correct, so she just did it as the Catholic course had taught it. What really bothered here was she didn't have plentiful information to defend her answer. She said these moments made her feel "sad" because the exchange was unsatisfying. She was in no way able to fix the situation or defend "the answer I really want to write." The teacher was the skilled theologian, not she, so after a while she gave up and just wrote it the teacher's way. </p>
<p>Turning it inside out, think of your son as the center of his own experience and ask if this is the college experience he wants most. To me, it's a basic need for kids to have a handful of others to seek out when things happen in the world that affect then emotionally. For example, within 4 years we can assume a lot will happen in Israel, both good and bad. On crisis or celebratory days, will he find someone else to express his thoughts and feelings who really understands why he cares so much about this news? If he wants to be silly the night of Purim or serious as Yom Kippur approaches, who will understand or share that first-hand?It's one thing to explain it all the time, quite another to have friends who are on the same page at certain seasons of the year. </p>
<p>Also, if he wants anything OTHER than an interfaith dating situation from the campus, what are the odds? The choice of CU really confines him to interfaith dating for 4 years. How will he ever find out what it feels like to date someone of his own faith, who knows what he's talking about when he is getting ready for holidays? Lots of Jewish students go to various campuses and date Jewish kids and nonJewish kids at different times during those 4 years. I wonder if he'll ever get a chance to experience how he feels within a two-Jew couple, just to see how that feels to share, not just explain, his background and customs to a girlfriend. While many modern Jewish parents find it unseemly to prohibit interfaith dating in college, here is a situation where a Jewish person is being confined away from meeting or dating other Jewish people, given the odds at CU. Does that sound like an opportunity or a limitation to him? </p>
<p>Dating aside, what friends will challenge, regale or delight him with other nuances/traditions/movements/developments within Judaism? There is a lot of growth and discovery that comes from having a circle of friends who share the same faith but practice it a bit differently. Does he mind if his Jewish development or knowledge-base stays pretty much unchanged during the next 4years? Judaism is a dynamic, sensory and vital way of life; can he explore or find pieces of that at CU? If all religious talk centers on the intersection between these two faiths, rather than a fuller exploration of his own, will he like that? </p>
<p>So I'd just want to be sure the questions you ask within your family consider how the student might want to express himself over a 4-year-period as he grows into young adulthood. That's different than wondering if others will like, accept or show interest in him. I think they would, but maybe that's not the whole point. Will HE like him?</p>
<p>Try to help him see it from inside his own head, through his eyes. Would it be more lonely than interesting? Be invigorating or wear thin? To me, sending a Jewish student to Catholic U sounds parallel to the small numbers of white students each year who go to Historically Black Colleges, one last year earning valedictorian status creating a lot of news; his younger brother enrolled this year. And if Yeshiva U is 99 percent Jewish (I actually don't know its percentages at undergrad level), figure there are some nonJews there who find the academic offerings and other advantages of Yeshiva U worth the unusual cultural circumstance. Is your kid that kid?</p>
<p>I think that some people really enjoy being very different while others find it lonely or tiresome; that's what to ask your son. I wouldn't project how you as a parent think it could/should feel, but rather what he can project he might/would likely feel. ANd I think it's a choice of his heart, not our heads.</p>
<p>paying3tuitions,
Thank you SO much for your very thoughtful post. You bring up so many good points! These are questions that I had not considered before, and I don't think my son has either. Your post will be the topic of discussion in our house over the weekend, I'm sure. </p>
<p>As of now, my son is leaning toward accepting admission to a different (public) school, not Catholic University. I understand his decision-making process, and I actually agree with his choice. He's a very level-headed kid, and is taking this decision-making seriously. CUA was his first choice for a long time, but when it came down to actually having to choose, he found that another school was a better fit for him.</p>
<p>One thing I can say for this whole process, is that it has helped me see my son more as a "young adult" than a "kid". He is making serious real-world choices about his life and his future. I'm glad he was able to weigh ALL the aspects of each school, and come to a decision that makes <em>him</em> happy. I'm very proud of him :)</p>