<p>Fine.</p>
<p>If anybody does care to enlighten, please feel free to pm me.</p>
<p>leanid - i find it somewhat disconcerting that you seem to feel that people have to offer you some justification for feeling that something that they find precious is worthy of being passed on to the future generations. no one has to objectively justify their feeling that something is worthwhile to preserve in order for it to be so – the simple fact that so many find it worth preserving makes it so. you don’t have to agree. you aren’t being asked to do anything to promote that end. at most, you are being asked to do is respect that others feel that way.</p>
<p>furthermore – you have greatly oversimplified the statement that was presented to you. it is NOT simply a restatement of the Golden Rule. look closer. think about it. </p>
<p>i will also offer you the following concept, perhaps you’ve already heard it – if so, bear with me thru my full analogy – think of God as being at the top of a mountain. there may be many many different paths up that mountain. people tend to follow the path up the mountain that their family has taken before – its familiar and there are those close to them to serve as their guide along the path. many may choose to abandon the path their family starts them on --either because they decide they don’t want to try to get to the top (or don’t believe there is anything worth getting to) or because they may choose to seek another path. that doesn’t mean that the path isn’t worthwhile – just that people have freedom of choice.</p>
<p>i guess one could say that wouldn’t it be simpler if we just construct one superhighway convenient way up the mountain for everyone to take. but that ignores the fact that what is important and precious isn’t simply whether or not one reaches the top – and in fact MANY MANY won’t ever feel that they actually get to the top. but notwithstanding any of that, what is precious is the act of going up that path (whether one goes part way or all the way)-- a path one can share with one’s family, a path that one can appreciate BECAUSE others have traveled it before them, a path they travel along with others with whom they share both a desire to explore that path as well as familiarity and common history with that path. if you cannot appreciate this point, it really doesn’t matter what anyone will tell you about Judaism or any other religion.</p>
<p>There are differences among Catholic colleges. I have no hesitation recommending Fordham to a Jewish family. Franciscan University is one I would have to preface with some caveats even to a Catholic family. There are colleges that are also church associated to other religions and it is the matter of degree that is an issue. </p>
<p>Are there Hillels at Catholic colleges? That I do not know and might be of interest to Jewish families.</p>
<p>I can certainly appreciate the path analogy. What is troubling though, is that ‘rising to the top’ mentality about it. Too often the “God” you speak of turns out to be the reward for scratching and clawing one’s way to the top – yes, material rewards, that too many (not just Jews, of course) have mistakenly confused with salvation.</p>
<p>I prefer to think of God as being just as much in the low places as the high.</p>
<p>Again, I do not condemn a peoples’ desire to preserve the future for themselves and their offspring, in fact it is admirable. I am only wondering why Judaism feels so strongly compelled to save itself when other religions seem to have gone to hell.</p>
<p>Another question!</p>
<p>If Judaism is so important, why haven’t there been more Jewish colleges established in this country? (I can think of less than a handful) Surely, it is not for want of resources!</p>
<p>Leanid, would you like to start a different thread? Please go ahead.</p>
<p>Leanid:</p>
<p>Judiasm feels compelled to save itself because of a little event that happened @60 years ago called THE HOLOCAUST. Jews were the scapegoats by people who did not like the fact that Jews were successful business owners, bankers, etc. Millions of Jews (among others) were killed. Because of one man’s rise to power.</p>
<p>I believe collectively it is every Jewish person’s wish to keep the religion going by marrying other Jewish people and having babies! It’s good that you are asking questions (I would recommend Cbreeze to do the same:)) because that is how you learn about other people’s religions and why they act the way they do!</p>
<p>Not sure why your other question is relevant. Jewish people don’t just want Jewish colleges. It is very important for my children to go to colleges where there are people of many diverse backgrounds and religions, but that also has a sizeable Jewish population so that they can do social things together if they wish, date, hang out…but also hang out with many kids whom they’ll meet who are not Jewish. That is one reason we did not choose to look at Catholic/Jesuit schools where the Jewish populations are very small compared to the school population as a whole.</p>
<p>Then it is not the Catholicism part of the college history that is the issue among many Jewish famiilies, but the percentage/number of Jewish students?</p>
<p>Leanid,</p>
<p>Perhaps your questions would be better suited in a separate thread.</p>
<p>A succinct answer to you last question would be related, IMO, to (a) statistical baserates and (b) finances. There is no Jewish comparison to the Catholic church in that there is no one underlying religious organization with large financial resources to help fund or defray some of the costs of establising a school. Bigger issue, IMO, with respect to the limited number of what you call “Jewish Schools” (and I am not referring to the rabbinical schools) is the small population (1.2 - 2.2%) of Jews in the US.</p>
<p>cross-posted with others who agree that another thread is better suited for these questions</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>i think the issue is how you define the top – i certainly don’t consider material success has anything to do with the concept – its just a matter of the old thought of GOD being up above-- we could say they’re are tunnels if you like that better – direction isn’t really relevant. what is relevant is the concept of journey and religion providing the avenue for that journey – regardless of where that journey ultimately takes you. (some people start out believing they know where the end point is, many don’t, many people change their idea as to where exactly they are headed along the way).</p>
<p>you may hear a lot about Judaism’s goal to preserve itself, but i really don’t think it is unique to Judaism and its adherents. i’ve known situations of intermarriage in which the non-Jewish spouse’s parent voiced many of the same concerns as the Jewish spouse’s parent. when my child was looking at the Jewish communities at prospective colleges, her friend was looking at the Catholic communities because that was just as important to her and her family as my child’s search was to my child and my family.</p>
<p>realize that for many parents posting here, the Holocaust was a significant influence in their childhood – because it was significant in their parents’ lives. when you experience a historic event that is defined as the attempt to annihilate your religion, i really don’t think it should be surprising that a reaction is a vocal declaration of intent to preserve that religion. add to that all the other historical situations in which there were attempts to annihilate Jews, i really don’t think you should be surprised that there is such a strong sense of preservation – pretty much every Jew today has to thank the fact that their ancestors did something to preserve themselves and their religion. if we find that of value in our lives, why wouldn’t we want to preserve it for our children and grandchildren? i’m not saying we are unique in this regard – i really think the goal of preserving one’s religion/culture/heritage isn’t unique to Jewish parents.</p>
<p>Thank you, all, for taking the time to explain some things. </p>
<p>I will refrain from continuing the discussion but I do want to add that, yes, naturally, an event as overwhelming as the Holocaust might really get people to want to save/perpetuate their own kind. Yet, if the Holocaust had not happened, then what? Would there be such a compelling need to preserve? I mean, is this preservation valid for Jewishness in its own right or is it valid for some emotional need to overcome the horrible injustices laid upon the Jews under the Nazis? Please consider what I have said.</p>
<p>If religion, per se, is passe then why Judaism?</p>
<p>Again, thanks for the well-reasoned and patient discussion.</p>
<p>Please take your “what ifs” elsewhere. These posts are becoming increasingly insensitive and offensive.</p>
<p>ok – i really hope that a thread isn’t started entitled, should Judaism be preserved?
can any good really come from that? leanid – if you start a new thread, please really think about how to phrase your question so that you do not cause offense where you don’t intend such offense. please don’t come across as challenge the value of something just because you are trying to understand the value others place on it.</p>
<p>“God at the top of a mountain” is an analogy for a <em>spiritual</em> height, not a material or physical one!</p>
<p>Should be obvious, but some apparently have misinterpreted.</p>
<p>Back to Goucher - I have not done a real visit there although I have seen the campus and it is beautiful. However, I know a young woman who graduated recently who is not at all the “finishing school” type - she is Jewish - and she loved it there.
Small sample, I know. And it may be too far for you. But the equestrian program + merit scholarship just spoke your daughter’s name! And, Southwest flies to Baltimore if that makes a difference.
Another thought about UC Davis - if your daughter loves animals, don’t they have a GREAT animal behavior program? Another idea for this in your general geographic preference is Central Washington University, I believe (please correct me someone if I am wrong).</p>
<p>Sorry, OP!
I feel compelled to answer cptofthehouse’s question!
I think that for the most part Jewish people shy away from sending their children to Catholic/Jesuit schools for the reasons I mentioned above AND since we do not believe the same as Catholic people, it would be very offensive for my children to go to a college where there are crosses hanging up in classrooms and attending some sort of mass!</p>
<p>And the fact that usually the Catholic/Jesuit schools have smaller Jewish populations for these reasons!</p>
<p>With 4,000 colleges to choose from in these united states, why would I want to choose a college for my children that would make them feel uncomfortable? It is the Catholic part AND the small Jewish population that makes Jewish people uncomfortable. Not every jewish person feels this way, however most do.</p>
<p>levirm- No Southwest airlines to our airport. US Air, Frontier, Horizon and United.We used to have American and Delta but I think they stopped flying anything but the puddle jumper to LAX.
I think UC Davis would be a great place for her. Far enough from home that she can’t come home every weekend but close enough that if she truely needed to come home it could be arranged. They have an equestrian team and almost every major under the sun. She just needs to get in.
This thread has given me some clarity. A list of questions for both D and H. Something that has really stood out for me is we need to figure out if she really wants or needs a smaller school. We already eliminated anything under 3000. I think we are all fairly clear that she would not like nor fit in at a close knit tiny school. This has been the hardest for me. I love the idea of a small liberal arts school but I am not the one attending.If the list will be mainly big school we have a lot of options.
Probably the next step is to take her to see a large school where she can observe a very large lecture style class. Class size is the main problem I see with a large school for this kid. Otherwise I think she would do well at a larger school.
My kids have always gone to school with very few jewish kids so for them that is the norm. I think that is why there is not an automatic rejection of a jesuit school. There would be a auto rejection of going to a school where someone was trying to push their values on her. She is one stubborn child and is not easily influenced. Racial diversity is much more important to her.</p>
<p>Im not Jewish, but my daughter may attend Loyola Chicago (Jesuit), so this thread made me curious about non-Catholic religious/social opportunities on campus. In answer to someone who asked whether Jesuit schools have Hillel groups, Loyolas website describes itself a home for all faiths, with a Hillel, student Mosque, and Puja prayer room. </p>
<p>It occurs to me that the OPs daughter, if she would be willing to try an urban environment, might look for a city with a large Jewish population and a choice of Hillels, especially if the school she selects has a smallish Jewish population. Using Chicago just as an example, I linked to a Hillel Around Chicago site, that lists seven Chicago campus-based chapters and two cross-campus initiatives (one for Russian Jews and one devoted to the arts). Also, Loyola happens to border Chicagos Orthodox Jewish neighborhood. Overall, there are 270,000 Jews in the Chicago area. </p>
<p>Chicago is probably too far (and cold!) for you, but perhaps there are other cities with cross-campus and city opportunities.</p>
<p>I love the internet. In my research (above), I found this on the Loyola Chicago Muslim Students Association websites Guide for Freshmen.</p>
<p>Best Places to Find Other Muslims (on campus):</p>
<p>-the Masjid (duh!)
-Damen Hall lobby the seats by the escalators on the first floor
-Dr. Abu-Eledam or Dr. Hermansens classes
-CC and DH computer labs
-Cudahy Library</p>
<p>This tickled me. Some Muslim mom would probably love this list. (Referencing the husband-hunting discussed earlier in this thread…!)</p>
<p>American University has been suggested by a friend. I see from their website it is religiously affiliated but from the RJM site I see it has a decent percent of Jewish students. They even have a club equestrian team.</p>