So I have got accepted to Johns Hopkins University with Hodson Scholarship listed above and received a likely letter from Columbia earlier this month (almost always implies an admission later on). I understand that there might be more options that will become available to me later on, but I am asking now because I hope to get a better sense of the nature of the choice I am having here before more information gets thrown at me later in the month. Any suggestions will be appreciated, be my guest!
Details:
I am heavily tuned with research experience and have multiple peer-reviewed publications and international awards from various science fairs. My interests lie in computer science, data science, and finance. I will either end up with the Software Engineering Trach, Quant, or Investment Banking (ranked in current level of preferences), which is a decision I will make later on while in college.
This makes my decision very torn now. I know JHU is a great school, and it is not only great for its Biomedical Engineering. HOWEVER, I am 100% sure I won’t do anything related to bio (I am dizzy when seeing blood, I will run away from bugs of any size, I took all the AP classes available at my high school except for AP Bio,… you got the gist). So, a great great school with great programs that offers me a lot of scholarship money versus a top school that comes with a lot of prestige and connections for financial industries…
Slam-dunk easy decision (assuming no money from Columbia). As you yourself noted, JHU is a powerhouse in pretty much all STEM fields. Why does it matter to you that JHU is also very strong in STEM fields you aren’t interested in? Columbia would be too.
@PurpleTitan I understand your point. And there are two ways to look at the comparison.
One way:
From what I’ve been hearing tho, JHU’s connections on Wall Street are kind of sparse. It’s nothing to do with the academic rigor (like how NYU is such a popular choice on Wall Street [even if NYU is generally not considered to have tier one academic rigor] – Wall Street cares about geographical proximity I guess). Also, my point was JHU was not that strong for computer science (per the ranking, I don’t know as much in reality tho).
Columbia, tho, is Columbia. The name effect is there. It appears in movies from time to time; my great grandmother who lives in a small village in China and speaks no English knows what Columbia is; it’s in NYC with handy access to great resources…
The other way:
JHU has a lot of name effects in the academic circle too, if not more than Columbia. The undergraduate research resources are immense and easily accessible to students. I am a merit scholarship winner (which JHU only gives out 20 per year), so I will have special access to many events (also carries some prestige with just that).
Columbia: packed in the city, and I don’t like city life (I hope that I can choose to stay away from the city from time to time, but this goes the same for JHU tho). The research opportunities are not that good. Professors have a lot of egos, so are the majority of grad students on campus – I head my friends there saying research assistants will work their asses off without even getting any credit.
So, you see, this is actually more complicated than it looks. And my family does not really care about the tuition difference, cuz I won’t need to borrow or be in debt either way. It also weighs a lot on if it is worth the difference of prestige in public opinion, which will influence my future networking.
Your great-grandmother and people like her won’t be hiring you. Columbia’s in movies: Who cares! Are you trying to impress teenage girls or something? Did you read the link I posted? Tell me: If JHU’s links to the Street are sparse enough that it matters, how come every kid in that class gets offers from their top target firms and place well? And I don’t think you understand how networking in finance works. “Prestige in public opinion” isn’t what matters. The man on the street isn’t making hiring decisions. Honestly, what really matters are your individual characteristics (smarts, work ethic, drive, people skills), but as so much as your alma mater matters, JHU is a rigorous enough school that you’d be considered smart. Benefits would be on the same level as Columbia since JHU is known for STEM and quantitative disciplines. I say that because it’s not like Columbia has an alumni network that is renown for being super-tight. It isn’t Princeton or Dartmouth.
My honest opinion (I have the same background as you) is that if your family pays more for Columbia, the only benefit they would buy is bragging rights with their Chinese friends and family. It’s up to you and your folks to decide if that is worth it. In terms of opportunities both in school and during the job hunt, I believe you’d get better ones as a named scholar at JHU (Columbia isn’t exactly known for it’s terrific teaching or focus on undergrads in the STEM fields and you wouldn’t be someone special there unless they also give you some named scholar designation with perks).
So to me, this is a slam-dunk easy decision because I’m too old and pragmatic now to care about getting my ego pumped and paying for bragging rights just seems vain and silly to me.
Another way to think of it (even if money is of no concern to your parents):
For the same amount of money, they could pay for
Columbia undergrad.
JHU undergrad + CBS (or any M7 MBA) tuition for both years.
I’ve found an M7 MBA to be more helpful than an Ivy-equivalent undergrad, BTW (and I really doubt it would be different with any other Ivy/equivalent undergrad outside of maybe HYPSM and Dartmouth with their alumni network). Though HBS and the GSB would trump any undergrad network (if you get in).
You left out the most important piece. How important is the $39K per year you would receive from JHU? You said your family does not mind the tuition difference. But is it enough money to matter?
I am a big fan of Columbia in general, and particularly for your career goals, as compared with JHU. However, I am also a fan of money.
No one can answer how important roughly $160K over 4 years is to you and your family, except you and your family. Columbia is certainly preferable in my opinion, but I admit I would have to think long and hard before turning down $160K in free money.
Congrats on your achievements and best of luck with your choice. If you are ultimately looking to get into quant or systems trading, don’t neglect serious math in favor of too much compsci. Check out sometime how many former IMO and Putnam competitors wind up at a place like, say, Jane Street Capital. Or RenTech. Again, congrats.
@PurpleTitan This is the most awesome, straightforward, evidence-backed answer I’ve seen so far! Seems like you have a lot of experience that is relatable to mine. Thank you for answering my question!
@PurpleTitan Exactly. I am still looking things over seriously, but I am really turning myself toward JHU now. If that is the case, then I will definitely consider M7 MBA programs.
@OneMoreToGo2021 My family and I don’t care about money in a way that $160k for four years won’t be an obstacle to our decision unless two schools are really not that off from each other (in terms of how much they are a fit for my interests and goals). For example, I would choose Princeton (my dream school since when I was 8) any time of the day over any full ride. I am just not sure if Columbia quite makes that much difference. Not biased against any schools tho, I am ranking schools in my heart mainly based on what I know about their vibes, academic rigor, research availability… which I would best fit in. I need to first admit that my internal ranking may not be extended to majority cases or be accurate.
@PurpleTitan : Thank you for posting the article on JHU’s Prof Steve H. Hanke.
OP: It is worth mentioning that Prof Hanke will be 78 years old when you matriculate at JHU next fall. Hopefully, he and his class will continue on for several years. It is my understanding that OP can apply to take the class as a sophomore when Prof. Hanke will be 79 years old.
Two primary benefits to taking Prof Hanke’s course in Applied Economics & Finance:
You learn a tremendous skill highly sought after by Wall Street type firms
You find out early whether or not IB & PE is for you.
As @PurpleTitan mentioned, that $160,000 has value. It is called opportunity cost. It’s what money can do for you if you use it in alternative ways. The easiest way to think about this is what the money would become for you if invested over the length of your career. If we us long historical averages of the US stock market (7%, inflation adjusted) and 40 years (22-62), $160,000 grows into $2,400,000. That’s the real cost of choosing Columbia over JHU. You will have to make that much more to break even if you choose Columbia. Good luck and congratulations!