Job outlook (my rant)

Graduate School
1

<p>well, this is pretty random, but i'm carious if anybody else agrees or just think that i'm off.</p>

<p>there seems to be a wide disconnect between the jobs that society deems as prestigious, and the jobs that society actually needs.</p>

<p>In my experience through college, students seemed to be pressured into pursuing careers that are already oversaturated, while other underemployed professions are ignored.</p>

<p>Society (esp. parents) seems to pressure kids into pursuing a career as a Doctor rather than a nurse, an architect rather than a landscape architect, college professor rather than elementary school teacher, ect…..</p>

<p>I think the market is reflecting this disconnect.</p>

<p>For example, many law school graduates are having difficulties finding jobs. Indeed, unless one attended a tier 1 school or managed to be in the top 10 percent of their class, one shouldn’t expect a salary much higher than 30 thousand a year.</p>

<p>And, as I mentioned in a previous post, professors in the humanities at solid universities only receive a marginally higher salary than public school teachers who received half the professor's post-secondary education.</p>

<p>as unglamerous as the professions sound, we need qualified teachers, nurses, engineers, computer scientists, ect............</p>

2

<p>College professors are generally not in it for the money.</p>

3

<p>
[quote]
College professors are generally not in it for the money.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Exactly. People go into all sorts of fields for the non-financial benefits as well. I'm partly interested in the professor deal for the prestige.</p>

4

<p>some professors are making a lot of money so to say they're not in it for the money is very hard to believe. If you took the 6 figure salary away, I'm sure they wouldn't "feel" as prestigious/helpful.</p>

5

<p>Yes...some are making money. But my personal interaction with many professors has led me to believe that a good number, if not a clear majority, of professors are not in it for the money. Especially in lower salary fields. </p>

<p>Why on earth would someone with a JD from a top school go into teaching at a law school for the money?</p>

6

<p>I think you should have strong passion for whatever field you pursue. the pay and the prestige come next.</p>

<p>In contrast, I see a lot of college students pursuing grad school because they don't know what else to do. grad school shouldn't be a default option. </p>

<p>in fact, unless you know what you want to do for the rest of your life, I would recomend most people to take a couple of years off between college and graduate school.</p>

7

<p>The majority --- probably the vast majority --- of professors make less than $100,000. Furthermore, those at top-50 schools in disciplines like medicine, law, computer science, and biology, who are the ones making a lot of money, could often make more in industry.</p>

8

<p>I am most definately not going into academia for either the prestige or the money. I could make loads of more money wokring for industry, however, I'd rather be happy in what I do with my life. I'd much rather teach students about my passion. I would do this at the secondary level, but I'd much rather teach students who care about what I have to say. Additionally, my chosen field is poorly represented and respected in secondary education.</p>

9

<p>naturally, prestige has nothing to do with what society needs -- prestige is measured out in self-promoting units -- whether or not YOU get respect, money, power, resources, etc. and not if you fulfill your community's needs -- besides, while there are individual cases where at one, more prestigious, position you're not earning even as much as you would be at another, less prestigious one, on the average a doctor earns much more than a nurse and a professor earns much more than a HS teacher -- and parents always encourage their kids to aim high and hope that one day their kids will become self-sufficient and will be working on the high end of salary spectrum</p>

<p>at least with becoming professor or doctor there is a lot of competition along the way -- so even though many students may dream about being one, only few actually get there -- so the market is not oversaturated with professors or doctors -- to the contrary, we will need even more doctors in the next decades -- i would guess that it is easier to get a law degree, and so lawyers nowadays have it very hard with the job market -- but usually, prestigious positions entail a lot of competition and even more hard work -- those who cannot come through drop out and become teachers, nurses, etc. -- it is not like there is a 10% unemployment level among the professors meanwhile elementary schools are stuffing their classes twice as full -- teaching and nursing also have to be made more lucrative to attract people because right now the general consensus is that teachers are underpaid while nurses have very demanding jobs and also underpaid (though less so than teachers)</p>

10

<p>Ok, so professors would do what they do for the same pay as a high school teacher in a poorly funded state? ~$25,000/year. There is an element of making good money... Ok, so not all professors make 6 figures, but I don't know any who make less than $50,000 (if they are actual professors that is).</p>

11

<p>From what I've seen, you're right that professors wouldn't do what they do for $25,000 per year. However, this is because $25,000 is often not enough to guarantee basic comforts for the prof and, say, a spouse, let alone a family. This doesn't mean that they're "in it for the money".</p>

<p>As for the actual level of pay --- for the UW, the average professor (including assistant and associate status) makes between $50,000 and $75,000 per year. The average arts professor makes $48,000 per year; the average humanities professor makes $50,000 per year.</p>

12

<p>kihyle, you made some excellent points. I don't really disagree with anything you wrote.</p>

<p>and its completely understandable that parents want their kids to shoot for the stars and become doctors instead of nurses. </p>

<p>but that shouldn't be one's central motivation. </p>

<p>there are way too many unhappy lawyers out there who would have made excellent teachers.</p>

13

<p>"there are way too many unhappy lawyers out there who would have made excellent teachers."</p>

<p>What are you basing this on?</p>

14

<p>This doesn't show they'd be good teachers, but have a look at this:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nd.edu/%7Endmag/legl2f99.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nd.edu/~ndmag/legl2f99.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

15

<p>of course, drbott, it was a generalization. i have no statistical evidence to back me up.</p>

<p>for the past year i have worked at a law firm. From my experience there, i've noticed the difficulties of the practice. its very stressful and challenging. if you don't love it, your gonna hate your life. </p>

<p>I can see why many college students would pursue a career in law rather than teaching for the wrong reasons (money, prestige).</p>

16

<p>Professors make good salaries. However, they would make FAR more if they went into industry. From all of the engineering professors that I've talked to industry is much better for money concerns, but academia allows you to pick your own projects and be your own boss. There is also a sense of prestige that comes with being a professor.</p>

17

<p>It is true that most profs could make more money in industry. But industry work is far more stressful and unpredictable. The biggest perk that profs have going for them is tenure. It's hard to get tenure, but once you have it, and as long as you continue to do the minimum amount of work, you're literally unfireable. That's right - unfireable. Contrast that with industry jobs in which you can work like a dog, and be the best employee in the company, and STILL get fired. In fact, at some companies, being the best employee perversely actually INCREASES your chances of getting fired, because you are so good that your manager increasingly sees you as a threat to his job, so the safest thing for him to do to save his job is to get rid of you. </p>

<p>The other huge perk that tenured profs enjoy is that they get huge blocks of time off. They get the summer off. They get winter break off, which usually is about a month off. They get spring break off. They get all of the Federal holidays off. Every 7 years or so, they get a paid year-long sabbatical to do whatever they want. Lawrence Summers, President of Harvard, used to rail about the fact that Harvard profs are only expected to work about 28 weeks in the year. No industry job is going to give you these huge blocks of time off.</p>

<p>Now, granted, most profs don't really take this time off to do nothing. Plenty of profs use this time to do research and to publish. But the point is, if they are tenured, they don't HAVE to. They can basically do anything they want during that time. I know profs who haven't published anything in years, and just use that time off to do free-lance consulting, or work in the venture capital industry, or to travel, or to basically enjoy life. </p>

<p>Plus, let's face it. The fringe benefits of being a prof, or just working at a university in general, are gold-plated. I know a woman who works as a simple receptionist at MIT who told me that her MIT health benefits are so good that her husband (a lawyer) is going onto her benefits. You get those benefits as a prof. You also tend to get a nice pension plan. You get access to the facilities of the university - i.e. a nice gym, free/discounted events (for example, that woman uses her MIT ID to go to the Boston Museum of Fine Arts for free), discounted tuition if they want to continue their education . Profs can often times get discounted tuition for their children to study at that school, in addition to strong admissions preference. I know an MIT prof who paid a reduced rate to send his children to MIT. </p>

<p>The point is, the prof lifestyle, especially after tenure, is a pretty sweet deal. True, you may not make as much money as you might in industry. But the fringe benefits and the lifestyle make for a very comfortable existence. You don't have to work that hard if you don't want to, you get to work on the things that you like to do and not others, you never really have to be truly fearful for your job, you get lots of nice cushy benefits, and so forth. It's a pretty good life, all things considered. You could do a lot worse than be a prof.</p>

18

<p>I agree with sakky, 100%.</p>

<p>My uncle is a physics professor. Lives in a very small house. No tv. A very old computer. Boxes upon boxes of books. Him, his wife, and their kids are probably one of the happiest families I know. He stresses the importance of doing something out of passion instead of necessity, and his family follows suit. </p>

<p>That's not to say that being a professor is for everyone. What I'm trying to say is that being happy with what you do should be your main concern.</p>

19

<p>Being a professor is the top of the chain with a lot of undergrad majors... If you major in History, English, Art, Foreign language, Biology, etc.... unless you go to business (MBA)/law/med school, you are going to do better for yourself as a professor than in industry.</p>

20

<p>it sounds like to me that life is amazing for a tenured professor. With the fringe benefits, it rivals private industry. its like being a french civil servant</p>

<p>On the other hand, nontenured professors have to put up with a lot of crap, including changing universities every 2-3 years, sucking up to department heads, and constantly publishing articles. For the nontenured, private industry might sound more attractive.</p>