<p>So our aspiring S got in an arguement with my wife the other day. They're both very pigheaded. So he originally for the longest time wanted to be an engineering major, now he wants to be a physics major. They argued I was not present. So I calmly ask him later on in the day when tensions are down. He goes into this critique about how he wants to know more about the universe, and how things happen etc. I give my retort about how, physics is good, but you have to definitely go to grad school else you somewhat limit your job options. He responded by saying he could go into finance with a physics degree. Where I said people with history or lit degrees go into finance as well. He left angry.</p>
<p>So please play devils advocate or either way. I just need more perspective. I don't meant o be negative. I also said do whatever makes you happy, too. I'm perfectly fine with him getting a physics degree, I'm just scared of job prospects afterward. Plus he's not really thinking about finances too. sigh Thank you for any input.</p>
<p>Physics majors are preferred over history/literature/etc. majors for finance due to the implied quantitative skills of a physics major.</p>
<p>Physics majors do tend to be considered as second choice applicants in computer software, finance, and some type of engineering – better than being rejected out of hand, but not as good as being the first choice. Actual physics jobs are often PhD-level (but physics PhD study is usually funded, so it is plenty feasable if he does not have a lot of undergraduate debt and gets in).</p>
<p>However, note that, in many schools, starting in engineering and switching to physics is easier than the other way around (engineering is often more impacted, while the math and physics courses are the same).</p>
<p>I think you are both right. I also think that you should not focus on his first job but on his career arc and his LIFE. Next time perhaps you could point out that there is probably nothing precluding him from studying both engineering AND physics and seeing where it takes him.</p>
<p>He’s in HS??? And you are arguing about his college major when he hasn’t even taken a single college class yet? </p>
<p>(What kind of engineering? There are cycles of boom and bust in some of them. I don’t think that one can simply skip blithely from chemical to aerospace to civil engineering in mid-career.)</p>
<p>I can understand your concern; you have a son who is capable of being an engineer and could come out of college with job prospects that would make your college investment worthwhile. But here he is, talking about wanting to know how the universe works. He sounds like a great kid. Of course he wants to know more about how it all works, because he’s bright and curious. These qualities will take him far. My guess is that he will land on his feet no matter what his major. (My nephew was a physics major who has worked as a software programmer since graduating.) And your son is still very young - he will probably continue to pay attention and be curious, and might very well change his mind a couple of times before he finds the major that feels right for him.</p>
Then he should consider studying both. If he’s an engineering major he’ll most likely be taking some physics along with higher level math anyway so he’ll have some exposure to that. After he takes a few courses in each he’ll have a better idea of what he’d like to go into. Avoid the heated discussion until after he’s taken some courses in each, but really, by that time he’ll be more matured in his thoughts in this area, he’ll have more experience, and HE can make the decision of what he wants to do since it’s his life/career anyway. It should be out of the parents’ hands by then other than as advisors if the student is willing to be receptive to that.</p>
<p>Note that ‘engineering major’ is very general and there’s a huge difference between the different branches - i.e. electrical engineering vs mechanical engineering vs chemical engineering vs computer science, etc. </p>
<p>Also note - at many colleges an engineering major needs to declare it up front or apply to the school of engineering up front and they also typically start taking courses in their major right away. This can present some logistical challenges for someone who isn’t sure but also remember that a lot of people start out in engineering and then switch out to a different major for a variety of reasons. People do this switching out with lots of other majors as well. This is fine - they learn more about a subject and might decide they don’t like it so much and they learn about other subjects that they might develop a new and greater interest in. That’s all part of the learning process.</p>
<p>Wow some fantastic input. I’ve had similar ideas floating in my head. He’s just so pigheaded just like his mom. Sigh</p>
<p>He said he wouldn’t change the applications he already has in, but would probably change the applications from here on out. I’m trying to be sympathetic. I’m like keep all your options open. He keeps saying he wants to go beyond four years, but I’m like things change situations change. You have to leave everything open. But your logic on job market for physics majors makes me feel better. Thank you!</p>
<p>The freshman year classes are probably pretty similar for engineering and physics majors, so I don’t think this is an urgent, must decide now situation. You could pretty easily check the recommended freshman classes for both majors at a couple of the schools he is applying to, just to check. </p>
<p>It may be a concern if he is applying to colleges that don’t offer engineering at all. </p>
<p>I tend to agree that engineering majors generally have better job opportunities than physics majors. (I’m an engineer.) </p>
<p>But it is most important that he like the major that he chooses. You might want to encourage him to postpone deciding which major until he has a chance to take some college classes, and see what he likes. Can he enter as a physics/engineering double major, with the plan to eventually drop one of them?</p>
<p>He may not have to attend a school that has engineering. There may be another reason he prefers the school without engineering. If that happens, he could be a physics major and take some engineering courses in the summer at another local school. He could also be a physics major and get a Masters in Engineering if he decides he wants an engineering job. The physics courses contain the fundamentals in mechanics etc just more theoretical not application specific. Physics is a great stepping stone for many careers.</p>
<p>My son, at this point as a freshman at MIT, is planning on majoring in math and physics and is considering a minor in nuclear engineering, but he won’t need to declare anything until the end of sophomore year. Those plans are subject to change!</p>
<p>Perhaps your son could do something similar with a minor in some sort of engineering? I know many universities require students to apply directly to the engineering school but maybe your son can have a few schools on his list that don’t have that requirement.</p>
<p>GladGradDad, at many schools engineering is a major where a lot of other electives just aren’t possible. So just taking extra physics classes would be harder than it sounds. Just to make sure it is clear to the OP (I know someone mentioned it above, but it is a key point), if your son does decide to go to grad school in physics, he will not need to pay to do so. They will pay HIM.</p>
<p>Many liberal arts colleges have 3/2 physics to engineering programs. Older son is a senior Physics major/math minor. One of his friends did 3 years in physics at son’s school and then transferred to an engineering school for the 4th and 5th year. This could be an option that will make both your wife and son happy. At this point, son has many options for the future as a Physics major. He did a paid internship last summer. The prof he was working for promised son a position in his grad school group. Son is looking at the grad school route but has been assured that the tuition will be paid and that he would get a stipend for living expenses. If your son goes to a 3/2 program, he can decide if he would prefer engineering or physics and still keep his options open for the future.</p>
<p>Some good suggestions here. I was going to mention the 3/2 plans as well. A couple of our state schools work together so that you graduate from school #1 with a bachelor’s in physics with a minor in math in 3 years, and then you transfer to a top engineering major state university and finish up 2 years with your degree in engineering.</p>
<p>Rigorous, but if you’re really wanting that physics - not a bad plan. Plus, school #1 is small, class size is small and teachers are attentive - so if you’re a good student, work hard, study hard - your gpa will likely be outstanding for transfer to the “higher” school.</p>
<p>Just don’t be surprised if DS decides not to leave for the engineering portion after 3 years. It’s hard for students to just break from their friends and not go through graduation with them.</p>
<p>I would say that typically it doesnt matter but with the current job market it may. With huge numbers of applicants they may use the major to sort resumes. In fact, weve been hiring a boatload of entry level engineers recently but they must have ABET accredited degrees. </p>
<p>When I got out of school 35 years ago with a Physics degree I got hired into an aerospace company basically doing the same sort of things engineers did with the same title Member of Technical Staff. Had I stayed on and been promoted up the tech ranks they only difference would have been that I would have been a Senior Staff Scientist and they would have been Senior Staff Engineers. We might have had slightly different duties but that would have been based on expertise rather than degree or title.</p>
<p>But things may be different now. In my case I decided to go back for an EE degree and fortunately for me because my next two positions only hired engineers.</p>
<p>So these days it might make a difference. Of course being a top student, attending a top school , having really good contacts or getting some sort of prime internship or job experience is much more significant IMO.</p>
<p>It is a difficult position to be in when torn between these two applications to college.
One can apply for a BS in Physics (science college) or one can apply to the engineering school within the college. They force you to decide immediately.</p>
<p>My son knew he would be a physicist since 5th grade. Seriously had no doubt he would go to grad school and get his Phd in physics.</p>
<p>He applied to physics programs and got in. By his second year of college it was obvious that with a few extra courses he could also get an engineering degree. We pushed him to do this thinking if he decided against grad school he would be in a better position for a job. He had to jump through a few hoops but he was able to get both degrees BS physics and BSEE engineering </p>
<p>He started grad school and within a few months decided he was not ready to devote 6-7 years. So he got out and ended up with a job as an engineer.</p>
<p>He is now in great demand at his job with his added physics knowledge and additional programming skills. </p>
<p>He is doing exactly what he always wanted to do…solving problems using math and physics. A puzzle to solve everyday. </p>
<p>The engineering degree did get him the job along with great pay.</p>
<p>Unless he goes to a clear Top 20 school it will be very hard to break into IB with either degree. If he does, it won’t matter much which. But eng offers more options than IB type work too.</p>
<p>Some of those suggestions I’ve made. Such as 3-2 programs, double majoring etc. He’s like fixated on physics. He did originally have a desire for astrophysics and nuclear engineering. But that limited the schools he could apply to too much.</p>
<p>I see him blossoming, I’m the listen and make suggestions type parent. Wife is the everything is dumb type. I suggested Alabama for the longest time, boy she bashed me for the longest time. After scholarship letters and some meet and greets she’s like oh its a fantastic safety now.</p>
<p>Last year he created a team at his school and won Berkeley’s Pioneers in Engineering. The honors engineering society at Berkeley invited them to a tour at the school and lunch. He loved it. He ooh’s and ahhed at everything. Now he’s like meh on engineering. I think that’d why my wife flipped out.</p>
<p>Yeah the thing about IB, its more of who you know then what you know. I know people that are doing finance with History degrees.</p>
<p>The dual degree route was a fantastic idea. But dang it looks super hard at certain schools. If he goes to schools like Alabama or Pitt with his AP credits he’d probably start out as a sophomore and would make the double major feasible. Hmmmm I’m like confused to high hell right now.</p>