<p>BH again you can make any supposition you want. And they are wrong in concerning ds. </p>
<p>OP & others, I would really look very closely at the economy. Having job experience after two years will equal 2 years of grad school. OR you may also say that a MS will get you a salary that equals two years of job experience. The downside is that there is no guarantee that you will get a job in two years or your job seniority will be low. </p>
<p>For ds experience, he could afford to go grad school without scholarship. Money was not an issue and continues to be a nonissue.</p>
<p>If someone doesn’t know any more after grad school than they did before grad school, I would have to say that it is no one’s fault but their own. No offense to anyone, but a MS from a reputable research institution will force you to develop sound research skills and truly gain understanding of a thesis topic. In grad school, you have a lot of freedom to take classes that interest you, so there is no reason why the coursework should not be challenging, if so desired.</p>
<p>I have to agree with what boneh3ad is saying. If someone knows that they want to get a graduate degree, the best time to do it, in my opinion, is right after undergrad. This provides research and networking opportunities and in the long run will add to your credentials and technical expertise.</p>
<p>Also, the argument that 2 years experience will equal a MS is not really accurate. In terms of pay, this is debatable but in terms of qualifications, it is not that straightforward. Many positions require an MS just to be considered for the job. Many design jobs will prefer MS holders. The point is, the MS will open many doors that 2 years of experience likely will not.</p>
<p>It isn’t just th student’s fault if they didn’t learn anything. The advisor is at fault if he signed off on his thesis/degree, as it would be pretty clear if the student hadn’t learned anything.</p>
<p>Tough situation, OP. I’m sure you are consulting with some relatives and advisors. But, since you asked, I’ll throw in my opinion.</p>
<p>If I was in your situation, I’d take the graduate school offer, even if I was not 100% sure about going to graduate school. If you are good enough to receive a 50k offer now, chances are you will be good enough to receive a similar or better offer later on. The program is only 2 years and you will be honing your current skills. Also, you mention the program is “super competitive” which means it will probably open a few more doors for you; generally, “super competitive” programs don’t put people under a bridge.</p>
<p>If you decide to go the graduate school route, it would not hurt writing a letter to the company that offered you the job explaining why you decided to turn down the offer. Perhaps keeping that bridge standing will assist you in the future. Good luck!</p>
<p>DS already had research experience as undergrad. Acquiring skills with projects, reports and research papers. </p>
<p>He already had the skills for MS thesis. Did he academically learn something new, probably not. Did he acquire other things as a MS-yes, another set of networks, and got him two internships with microsoft research and a third with the visiting German professor to msft. Did he learn academically from the internships, probably not-But did he acquire 3 sets of networks, and other sets from the international conferences. I’d say his grad advisor is very good and very good to DS. Grad prof even offered a phD after his internships. Undergrad prof also offered a phD. Both unsolicited. </p>
<p>For OP. DS award from Toronto was C$36,000 vs CMU dual major at US$56,000 BS graduates average, 2006. He did pay some Canadian taxes, and a real big tax in USA. </p>
<p>Current position is staff engineer at major research university, helping grad students complete their thesis, and special projects. </p>
<p>You got a hard choice. Future economics will be an issue.
GL</p>
<p>Your criteria for a good advisor seems to be incomplete here though, LongPrime. An advisor can be the nicest guy in the world, but if, while in grad school, a person fails to learn anything academically, then there is a failure somewhere. Either the student failed to seek opportunities to expand themselves academically or the advisor failed to provide the opportunities to expand academically. Regardless of who was at fault in those examples, the student’s graduate commitee certainly failed if they let him through without learning anything. That is the whole point of a thesis defense.</p>
<p>So, either one of these things I have mentioned happened, or you and/or your son are just exaggerating how little he learned.</p>
<p>If it was late 2008 - early 2009 I’d take the job. In 2010, the economy will more than likely improve rather than remain flat. Is not like he is going to end up living in a cardboard box.</p>
<p>Go ask Georgia Tech and Berkeley engineering graduates this question and they will laugh at you for even asking it.</p>
<p>The most likely scenario is that job recovery is going to be very, very slow and by the time the next recession hits (likely in 2013 or 2014) unemployment will still be over 7 percent. </p>
<p>There is also a chance we are in store for a lost decade. There is likely a 5 to 10-year oversupply of residential and commercial housing and that is going to drag down the rest of the economy for a long time. </p>
<p>Turning down a good paying job in a time of such uncertainty seems so foolish to me. Perhaps because I come from an underprivileged background where money is hard to come by my perception is skewed.</p>
<p>The OP seems to be a highly qualified individual. Additionally, the OP mentioned (s)he resides in Canada and taxes would bring down her/his earnings to ~$35k; basically, $15k “stolen” by the government. In contrast, the $33k grad school offer is not taxed and chances are he will be just as good, if not better, when he finishes grad school.</p>
<p>The chances of the OP receiving the same grad school offer are lower than the chances of being offered any other job. If the OP has little or no debt, grad school will be financial boost.</p>
<p>You didn’t mention the opportunity costs of foregoing 70,000 dollars of net salary and real world job experience over the next two years. It’s my understanding that a grad student with no experience makes roughly the same as an undergrad student with no experience, so he’s also foregoing the possibility that in two years he will be making a greater salary with a bachelors degree and two years experience than he would be with a masters and no experience. Not to mention that the real world contacts he would make on the job would likely be more valuable than academic contacts unless he plans on going into academia.</p>
<p>Considering the scholarship is “super competitive”, as he says, it is highly likely that the graduate program he is attending has a good record of placing students in good positions.</p>
I thought a Graduate degree was equivalent to Bachelor’s + A few years of experience according to many job requirements? I agree with the real world experience from the job though.</p>
<p>LongPrime, you are always learning. You joule never stop learning.</p>
<p>Inmotion12, I turned down a job this time last year in favor of grad school and I have neve stopped thanking myself for taking that chance. Not everything is black and white.</p>
<p>Inmotion, I can assure you that this is not true. A reputable graduate degree should definitely get you more money than an undergraduate degree, not to mention that it can qualify you for jobs that a bachelors will not. Where are you getting your information from? Are you speaking from experience and do you even have an engineering degree? Also, regarding your so called “real world contacts”, at any decent grad school you should make many industrial contacts in addition to academic contacts. Comments like this lead me to believe that you really have no experience in graduate school or industry so I’m not sure why you would make these claims.</p>
<p>Seriously, I can’t understand why some people on here post things when they clearly have no idea what they are talking about. Speaking from actual industrial and graduate school experience, I can tell you that a graduate degree holder can command a higher salary and should make many industrial and academic contacts from doing research.</p>
<p>Also, inmotion12, you are leaving out a couple facts:</p>
<p>He gets either 70000 over two years from his job or 66000 over two years from grad school. That isn’t much of a difference.</p>
<p>Most jobs treat grad school as experience.</p>
<p>Graduate degrees open up a slew of new jobs for you, so there will be a larger pool of jobs to choose from for the OP on account of being more qualified.</p>
<p>Factor all of this in with the aforementioned assumptions made about the OP based on some statements they have made and experience, and the scales seem to tip towards grad school.</p>