Jobs out of undergrad at LACs?

<p>dchow:</p>

<p>As folk here know, both my wife and I have degrees from a highly-ranked liberal arts college.</p>

<p>The thing I have found it is has been useful in the job world to be able to play both sides of the fence. You find yourself in many groups where saying that you went to Yale or Columbia would instantly get you pegged as an pointy-headed rich-kid snob. There are many times when it is useful that folk don't recognize the hoity-toity college.</p>

<p>I have found that my employers know the college I went to, at least by reputation. The people who know Swarthmore (or the school I went to) will know that it is hot stuff academically. In cases, where people have not known, it has been pretty easy to characterize the nature of the school in one sentence.</p>

<p>As I say, I have found it quite useful to have the flexibility to play it either way. It's interesting to see how often Harvard grads will say they "went to school in Boston" for just that reason.</p>

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<p>Are you seriously trying to sell us on the idea that saying you went to Harvard or Columbia is somehow a liability in the same circles where saying you went to Swarthmore would be advantageous? That's just plain ridiculous. The reputation of the Ivies is still miles ahead of even the most elite liberal arts colleges, and the brand name recognition they get are certainly far more beneficial than they are a hinderance. Harvard graduates even have a term for name-dropping their school: "Dropping the H-Bomb." The reason is because it is almost like cheating in that it is so effective at getting people to instantly give you more esteem than they would someone else, all because of the reputation Harvard has throughout the world.</p>

<p>All that said, and to answer dchow's concerns, the truth is that out in the real world, people don't care so much where you went to school as much as they care about who you know and what you can do (for them or their company). A school is supposed to be an indicator of the latter and, in the case of schools with strong and vast alumni networks (Harvard, for example), it can help you with the former. But, ultimately, it's about being relentless and working hard to achieve what it is you want. Nobody cares about your GPA or whether you were honors or not or whether you went to Swarthmore or the University of Minnesota when you're out in the world, trying to make a go of it. If you can be relentless, driven, outwork the competition, and constantly maintain a high level of competence in your endeavors, you will be successful. It's as simple as that and the adage that "school is what you make of it" only serves to illustrate the first step down that path.</p>

<p>Statistics like Swarthmore's future Ph.D. production or Harvard's future MBA production are misleading, because they are merely characterizing the matriculants, not saying anything special about the school itself (save that is has in its ranks such matriculants). Just because you go to Reed or Swarthmore, it doesn't mean you're screwed unless you want to go into academia via a Ph.D. It just means that a higher percentage of your fellow graduates will end up with Ph.D.s, because that's the type of people who go to those schools, and that you will have a bigger network of alumni in those areas, proportionally speaking. It doesn't mean, though, that you're going to get turned down from medical school or have a harder time getting a job, except in that it does factor into the "who you know" component of getting on a career path. Ultimately, though, your career is entirely on you, and your selection of which school to attend will have little bearing on your success in your chosen career path. It's more about what you want to get out of your college experience than how it's going to be a springboard into professional life.</p>

<p>Steve jobs was from reed anyway..</p>

<p>Jobs attended Reed officially for one semester, unofficially for three more. He did not graduate. </p>

<p>See <a href="http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p>

<p>Excerpt: "If I had never dropped in on that single [Reed calligraphy] course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts. And since Windows just copied the Mac, its likely that no personal computer would have them."</p>

<p>He's still from Reed, just like Bill gates from Harvard- he dropped out too..</p>

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Are you seriously trying to sell us on the idea that saying you went to Harvard or Columbia is somehow a liability in the same circles where saying you went to Swarthmore would be advantageous?

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<p>No, I don't think that's what I said. I think what I said was that there are times when it is advantageous to not be instantly pidgeon-holed as a "snooty pointed-headed snob" based on your college. What is advantageous, in many situations, is not having your college instantly recognized as a "snooty, pointy-headed snob school".</p>

<p>Let me give you an example. Suppose that you land a job as the managing director of a sales force. You not only have to develop a repoire with your salespeople, but also interact with customers, most of whom will not be Ivy-league grads. The instant you identify yourself as a Harvard grad, you are pegged accordingly. That's why many Harvard grads say they went to college "in Boston". </p>

<p>The beneficial thing about my Williams degree, in those settings, is that groups who would pidgeon-hole me have almost never heard of Williams. What is advantageous is not going to Williams over Harvard (although that may be true for other reasons), but the fact that naming your college doesn't trigger negative stereotype responses. In other words, sometimes there are benefits to not advertising the fact that you are brainiac who went to a $45,000 a year "rich kids" college.</p>

<p>It has also been my experience that people who will be impressed by an elite college degree have generally heard of the top LACs or they have heard of similar schools so that it has been easy to position the school in an interview situation with a quick reference.</p>

<p>Of course, if your primary motivation in selecting a college is designer brand name recognition, then you would be nuts to choose a Swarthmore or a Williams over a Columbia or Yale. I'm just trying to point out that the well-known designer label can cut both ways.</p>

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I think what I said was that there are times when it is advantageous to not be instantly pidgeon-holed as a "snooty pointed-headed snob" based on your college. What is advantageous, in many situations, is not having your college instantly recognized as a "snooty, pointy-headed snob school".

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<p>That's fine, and you could think of dozens of more contrived examples to support your position, but I think that the designer label is generally far more beneficial than it is detrimental, and those times when it would actually be a problem are the exception, and not the rule. The brand name recognition of Harvard is really second to none in terms of academic prestige among both the elite and the laymen, and that is ultimately more good than bad for the vast majority of Harvard graduates.</p>

<p>Yes... brand name does matter.. But many many Williams (and probably Swarthmore too) grads attend top graduate schools. The graduate programs at Harvard have a very large contingent of Ephs</p>

<p>A.E.</p>

<p>As I said, if the designer brand label is the most important criteria, a student should the top Ivy university without question.</p>

<p>Of course, each student must weight the various criteria for himself or herself and make an individual decision. My recommendation has always been to start the college search by visiting a large state university, a mid-size private university, and a small liberal arts college. Then, take it from there.</p>

<p>My recommendation has always been to start the college search by visiting a large state university, a mid-size private university, and a small liberal arts college. Then, take it from there</p>

<p>very good advice..please post it often when kids ask for help in starting thier college search</p>

<p>Well, think if you're looking to get recruited by some NYC firm, go to Columbia; but if you think that you will be hurt from the standpoint of graduate schools, you're crazy. Not only does is Swarthmore 3rd in sending the highest percentage of students to grad schools, it has the highest possible "GPA quotient," which grad schools use to compare GPAs from different schools. It certainly has respect from grad schools..</p>

<p>"Not only does is Swarthmore 3rd in sending the highest percentage of students to grad schools, it has the highest possible "GPA quotient," which grad schools use to compare GPAs from different schools. It certainly has respect from grad schools"</p>

<p>What does this mean exactly? What is a GPA Quotient?</p>

<p>^ A GPA quotient is something many grad schools use to equalize GPAs of students coming from different universities. Since Swarthmore has a high 'quotient' grad schools will multiply students' GPAs by a factor greater than 1 to make up for the grade deflation, or rather, lack of grade inflation.</p>

<p>Oops. Typo. Sounding so intelligent really bolsters my point, ya know?</p>

<p>But, yeah, exactly. It just means that your hard work is rewarded and if you are planning on heading off to grad school, your Swarthmore-3.5 will be very impressive.</p>

<p>Interesting posts. I think each prospective student needs to ask what is more important: the quality of an education or the prestige of a degree. There is not an absolute answer and both may enter into any decision. Different students (and parents) will weigh these factors differently. I would say that almost invariably, students at top LACs choose their colleges for the quality of education. Prestige is less important (relatively). On the other hand, while some may choose attending an Ivy or similar university for the same reason, many other students will choose to attend based on the prestige of the degree. </p>

<p>In general, graduate and professional schools as well as employers from major firms recognize the quality of education obtained from top LACs. Ultimately, I believe that education is one's greatest personal investment (hopefully lifelong), and I would choose where I would learn best. But that is a personal decision.</p>

<p>I also think prestige value is overated here on CC. America, for the most part, is meritocratic and successful people are found in every field who did not attend prestigious colleges or even graduate from college. Attending a prestigious college or university is most helpful for applying for graduate/professional school and one's first job, but after that, each person needs to prove themself. Ten years out from college, where you attended college really doesn't matter very much in the workplace. What you have done afterwards will be much more important.</p>

<p>go to college where ever…. work hard but efficiently at all of your college endeavors….learn stuff, especially stuff about your self…stuff like…. what do I like… what do I want… how can I get and/or do stuff I like and want </p>

<p>learn to read….learn what to read…learn how to think…l learns how to think about what you have read…learn how to get along with people…learn how to motivate people….</p>

<p>Get out of college do what you want to do…think about what you are doing…learn how to make a living do it….be prepared to change as you get older especially after you have your own kids….</p>

<p>One universally applicable tip…..Be wary of people who call you aside and say “Ben, I have one word for you…” Be especially wary of people who call you aside and say they have one word for you if the word is plastics, or Harvard.</p>

<p>hahaha plastics. good one :)</p>