Jobs out of undergrad at LACs?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
1

<p>So I'm fairly certain I'm going to become a professional and go to professional school after undergrad, but just in case I suddenly decided that I wanted to get a job straight out of undergrad---is it fairly easy to do so with a degree from an LAC like Swat, considering how little name recognition there is in the non-PhD carrying population?</p>

<p>Does anyone know stats for job success out of undergrad at Swat?
Or what kind of companies recruit there, and how many kids they usually take?
Thanks.
(This is partially also for a friend who is trying to decide between Swat and Dartmouth, and likes Swat better, but is worried that a Dartmouth degree might be more beneficial should he want to work right out of college).</p>

2

<p>OC:</p>

<p>It is very hard to generalize because Swat only graduates 350 young adults per year and they march to a lot of different drummers.</p>

<p>This PDF file gives you an overview of the last three graduating classes:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/careerservices/employment_stats.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/careerservices/employment_stats.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>These three links give major by major breakdowns of the plans for all graduating seniors in that year. Keep in mind that these are based on exit surveys before graduation, so lists like these are never comprehensive.</p>

<p>Class of 2006:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/careerservices/2006_postgrad_survey.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/careerservices/2006_postgrad_survey.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Class of 2005:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/careerservices/2005_postgrad_survey.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/careerservices/2005_postgrad_survey.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Class of 2004</p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/careerservices/2004_postgrad_survey.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/administration/careerservices/2004_postgrad_survey.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

3

<p>My husband who is a lead scientist at one of the national labs actively seeks to hire Swarthmore grads (for post doc or staff physicist level) because he believes that anybody who survives the Swat experience can prosper in the lab's most rigorous environment. Actually, he just hired a Swat graduate a few months ago...and she is sailing through with no problems.</p>

4

<p>
[quote]
This is partially also for a friend who is trying to decide between Swat and Dartmouth, and likes Swat better, but is worried that a Dartmouth degree might be more beneficial should he want to work right out of college.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The Ivy league designer label cuts both ways. Sure, more people have heard of it, but a lot those people will also assume you are a pretentious jerk JUST because you went to an Ivy League school. Watch Harvard grads sometimes. When asked where they went to college, they often say, "in Boston".</p>

<p>I have found it convenient to be an alum of a fly under the joe public's radar college. There have always been employers who know Williams (in my case). But, in many situations, it's great to just pass it off as a little podunk school nobody's heard of.</p>

5

<p>If you want to do postgrad work, Swarthmore is great. If you want to work for employers on Wall Street (and trust me, I know this very very well), there is a select list they hire from. Companies like Goldman Sachs, Lehman etc. all have their own lists. Swarthmore is in many of the lists but not all of them. Goldman for example has and hires a lot of Swat grads. So does my company but they don't hire summer interns (see next paragraph below). Amherst seems to be in more lists than Swat for some reason.</p>

<p>Management consultancies like Accenture, McKinsey, Booz-Allen Hamilton know about Swat and will hire many from there. McKinsey hires a disproportionate number of grads from Swat (disproportionate for the number of graduating seniors). Last year, they hired 6 Swat economics majors. </p>

<p>But comparing Dartmouth with Swat, I can tell you truthfully, Dartmouth has the leg up on Wall Street, no doubt about it. If you are looking for a position as an analyst, going to an Ivy League will give you an initial leg up. That is not to say Swat compares unfavorably in those circles.</p>

<p>This summer, my son who is an economics major at Swat was unable to get an internship at my company. Swarthmore is not on their list for summer interns. They hire summer interns from Amherst, Wesleyan but not Swat. But there are a lot of alumni of Swat at my company in I-banking. They told him to apply next year again when he graduates, he would be considered seriously. </p>

<p>You have to take the long-term view when considering colleges since you will work for 30-40 years. A college degree from Dartmouth undoubtedly has name recognition.</p>

6

<p>By the way, Swat is not on McKinsey's list for hiring summer interns, at least not McKinsey in NYC. My son cold-called them this February (early February) and that is what they told him. Each of these companies have about 10-12 internship positions each summer and they get as many as 600 resumes. If your school is not on the list, your chances of getting a summer internship are low unless you are an I-Banker and can get your son/daughter in. The summer internships also depend on the state of the economy and how tight the job market is.</p>

<p>Of course, schools like Wharton and Ivies do have a serious leg up in these matters.</p>

7

<p>I am not sure of your (or your friend's) intended major, but my D who is a freshman at Swat, majoring in Engineering, has just received two summer internship offers (one involves intertial confinement fusion targeting and the other is in robotics). Knowing that most companies do not offer such internship positions to a freshman, she spent the entire winter break applying for jobs, following up with phone calls, visiting places and making sure that she met the hiring managers before going back to school. Her goal was to start her "professional" job right now so when she is ready to graduate, she would already have a job line up. I don't think her going to Swat made any difference at all. If you want to increase your chances to get a decent job upon graduation, you need to put in the time and effort to find a position you are interested in way earlier than your senior year. I believe a Swat diploma does not necessarily get you in (or keep you out), but how you go about getting that ideal job is the key.</p>

8

<p>
[quote]
But comparing Dartmouth with Swat, I can tell you truthfully, Dartmouth has the leg up on Wall Street, no doubt about it.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Except that, at Dartmouth, you are competing with 4000 other undergrads who have had their hearts set on becoming Wall Street investment bankers since they were in strollers.</p>

<p>I'm surprised no mention of Kohlberg, Kravitz -- the company that really set the leveraged buyout craze in motion. Swatties might recognize a familiar name.</p>

9

<p>Yes, Kohlberg of KKR fame is an alum. My son has been looking for summer jobs every summer and has been able to find them. Last year (when he was a sophomore), he found one in a market research firm. It was a pretty good experience. He's found winter externships as well where he has shadowed alums. This year, he started looking since Fall of 2006...so he was diligent. We have to see what he gets, he hasn't heard from everyone.</p>

<p>I still stand by my personal opinion of the Ivies having a leg up. That is my personal opinion and I am entitled to it.</p>

10

<p>OT:</p>

<p>Is there a private email list or message board for Swat parents? I admire you all for discussing about your kids on this board, but my daughter will not appreciate me discussing her particulars and specifics on a public message board, but I'd certainly like to know more about these aspects of Swarthmore! My daughter had fantastic internships in high school for her age and grade, which contributed partially to admissions at Swat I'm sure, and this year she hasn't lined up any and it's worrying her.</p>

11

<p>gigirem,</p>

<p>I'm a prospective Swat applicant, very interested in engineering. I visited the school and really loved it, but I have a few reservations about the engineering program. Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but has your daughter liked the engineering program so far? Is there the possibility of work in an engineering firm (on the technical side) without a grad degree?</p>

<p>Thanks very much for any perspectives you can offer.</p>

12

<p>Most people who get engineering degrees from LACs (e.g. Swarthmore, Smith, Trinity) go on to get graduate degrees in engineering from larger universities. LACs generally, and Swarthmore in particular, do extremely well at placing their students into top graduate schools. An engineering BS from Swarthmore, plus an engineering MS from a prestigious university, would be a highly marketable combination.</p>

<p>The Swarthmore engineering BS program is ABET-accredited. So it is a valid professional degree, just like any engineering degree from (say) MIT or Stanford. However, a Swarthmore BS degree by itself may not be as marketable as a university engineering BS degree.</p>

<p>LACs like Swarthmore are only accredited to offer a general "BS in engineering" degree. There may be some opportunity to concentrate in a particular engineering discipline, but you won't get a specialized degree (e.g. BSEE, BSCE, BSME) like you would at a larger school. Employers tend to look for the more specialized degrees. You won't get anywhere near the same breadth of course offerings as you would at a university. You can also assume that the universities will have much larger alumni networks, better contacts with employers, and more on-campus recruiting. </p>

<p>I'm sure you can find work with a Swarthmore engineering BS. However, the real strength of the program is probably graduate school placement.</p>

13

<p>Budgiekid90,</p>

<p>My daughter seems to be content with her Engineering courses, labs and profs. In general, teachers seem to be accommodating those students who want to do extra work for their own advancement. My D spent extraordinary amount of time in the machine shop last semester, building parts at odd hours in the morning for a side project. She was given the key to the room - which indicates that if you show a particular interest in an area, they will help you to advance in it.</p>

<p>With regard to finding an Engineering job upon graduation, it seems to me that you will have a better chance of landing one if you work in a technical field as a summer intern. Especially, if you go back to the same company for two/three summers in a row, they would most likely hire you as a career employee upon graduation.</p>

14

<p>gigirem,</p>

<p>Inertial confinement is a lot of fun - almost like a bomb!</p>

15

<p>By the way, my son was able to get an internship this summer in something that he is really interested in. He is a rising senior.</p>

16

<p>This thread is back up? I'll give my update. My daughter has an interesting internship completely unrelated to her interests, but that is a good thing because I was worried about her specializing very young without having explored other possibilities. But she got this one through parental contacts, though she has to prove herself on the job all on her own. It's an interesting experience, not one she wanted but one that will stretch her.</p>

17

<p>Anyone still relying on where they got their undergraduate degree twenty years ago, probably lied about it in the first place.</p>

18

<p>I have a similar question that the OP had, and I'm actually quite concerned. </p>

<p>Here's the conversation I had with my sister, who's now in college (the ideas are the same):</p>

<p>Me: "So, my top three colleges are U. Chicago, Swarthmore, and Reed."
Sister: "Well, what about Columbia?"
Me: "I found out that it wouldn't fit me, because I didn't like the fast-paced environment and wanted more sense of community (and more intellectualism, but I didn't tell her that)."
-Well, I think you should apply to Columbia because you have a chance, and it could give you more name recognition when you're looking for jobs.
-But if I decide to go to grad school, which I probably will, a place like Swarthmore or Reed will really help.
-But what if you change your mind and decide not to go to grad school?
-Well, I probably will because I'm going to a liberal arts school, and nowadays graduate degrees are important.
-But you just never know.</p>

<p>That is exactly why I am hesitant to go to a liberal arts school--what if I decide not to go to graduate school? What can I do with an undergraduate degree from Reed, for instance? Since I can't predict the future, and I don't know if I'll go to grad school or not, would it be best to go to a school with a big name, even if it is undergrad?</p>

<p>I feel like if I do go to Swarthmore or Reed, I'm sort of signing a contract, saying that I will go to Grad school.</p>

<p>Now, I probably have a ton of misconceptions, but I'm sure my sister has lots of misconceptions too. After all, she doesn't even have a job yet, and she doesn't have the experience to know if the name of the college really matters. </p>

<p>I need some clearing up. I was thinking of posting this somewhere else, but I was thinking that some poster will say, "This question was discussed before," where I'd have to scour like a ton of threads to find the answer I was looking for, and I'm posting this here because it seems like someone recently had the same concern.</p>

19

<p>OK, for some reason I can't delete my first post!</p>

<p>While I was showering, I realized that my last post was not very good. My real question is: what edge do you get from an undergrad degree from Columbia over an undergrad degree from Swarthmore, in terms of looking for jobs?</p>

<p>Yes! That is EXACTLY my question. but I shall search other posts first. It really doesn't have to do with liberal arts itself, my question has more to do with prestige.</p>

20

<p>What can you do with a degree from a liberal arts college like Swarthmore or Reed if you don't go on to grad school? Well the whole point of a liberal arts education is to answer the question this way: You can do (almost) anything.</p>

<p>A liberal arts education is not designed to slot you into a ready made career track. If you want to get a 4 year degree that will definitely prepare you for a clearly defined job at graduation you should consider getting a degree in accounting, engineering, etc.</p>

<p>As to whether having a history or econ or english BA from Columbia will open more doors than the same degree from Swarthmore or Reed, I don't know. I am confident, though, that your job sucess over several years or a career will depend far more on who you are, what you do and luck than on where you get your undergraduate degree.</p>