Joint programs????

College Majors Music Major
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<p>mom;</p>

<p>English is not my first language, and not my second. Despite that I got into many good schools, so give me a break.</p>

<p>There's nothing I'm trying to work out, I just read a lot of different things here and it seems that many people have an unrealistic view of doing music at school. I've addressed a number of issues with regards to that, and here in particular, I was sensing that the original poster just wanted to practice his instrument and study normally, and look what happened, he corroborated my assumption by saying that he really doesn't care much for music courses. </p>

<p>The reason I've said everything here is that I have so many friends in music who regret going to a conservatory when they should have just gone to a normal school. We're sort of raised to believe that the only thing you can do is go to a conservatory to be a musician, which isn't true. Personally, if you ARE going to one, you might as well do it right, but if your instrument is the only thing you're interested in (which based on my experiences, constitutes a lot of kids who are good in music), then they'd be better off somewhere else.</p>

<p>I'm not going to press the issue anymore, because clearly people are offended by the idea that you can be a good player and not do all the other stuff that they force down your throat at a conservatory.</p>

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<p>BassDad, thanks. from a layman's standpoint, it confirms what I suspected, and had been told by a number of performing professionals as well as serious students. As in most disciplines, an understanding of the foundations and mechanics is important in putting "theory into application".</p>

<p>I'll agree also that beyond a certain point, the higher level specialized area courses may not be necessary for many. I think a lot will depend on the individual, and how they use it.</p>

<p>There is a major difference in knowing the how's and why's versus dissecting each piece as in Vieux's example.</p>

<p>I do think lorelei has a valid point with some of the required theory curriculum expanding beyond what actually may be necessary or many students.</p>

<p>Just my $.02 as an observer, with no musical background or training.</p>

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<p>Vieuxtemps,
Thank you for your leveled response. I worried that I spoke too harshly above. You should know a lot of us parents are reading your postings with interest. I think I can wager that most of us are a little insecure about the path our kids are taking--but we also know there are no guarantees with any academic focus except perhaps accounting.
My point about law school is that because of the financial burden, many law students lose their chance to choose a direction and have to go for the big bucks, which can be fun for some and crushingly oppressive for others. I know A LOT of unhappy lawyers.
I certainly admire those few who can balance a top academic program and continue to mature as a musician, but that's pretty rare. If you are one of them, I am very happy for you.</p>

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<p>Well that's also part of my issue. It's not like studying music is cheap. A lot of these programs are really expensive. Juilliard, MSM, NEC, CIM... they're all really expensive. Factor in tuition and living in Boston or New York City, you are paying Harvard prices, and if you need loans, just consider that the bank or whomever is loaning it doesn't have the security of a big law job like you'd have if you graduated from Columbia or Harvard law. </p>

<p>It's terrible to say but even if you make it into the New York Phil or LA, Boston, and San Francisco, you'll be underpaid. Especially in New York and SF, due to the cost of living. Even with a seemingly impressive salary, you aren't in the clear at all.</p>

<p>I think emotionally people are very secure with doing music. Realistically and rationally, I think many kids, especially parents are quite insecure about doing it. In a material sense, to be able to raise a family, send YOUR kids to school and retire, is incredibly hard next to a person who entered one of the other professions. So, that's why I suggest the option of going to a good school like USC, Northwestern, (Or even a bunch of state schools where there's a good teacher. There's so many options and you shouldn't feel limited to just a big name school) or even Yale/Harvard/Columbia if you can swing it. It might not be an option for some, but I believe you'd get more value out of the large chunk of money you're spending. I was lucky and got a Starling scholarship, but I have friends who are extremely good players who didn't get so much help, and some none at all.</p>

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<p>Vieuxtemps - I agree with what you are saying in principal. It is possible for SOME students to study musically seriously by the route you are suggesting. The problem is that many of the non-conservatory schools you mention restrict access to the best teachers to those students who are performance majors. If you go to Rice but are not in the Shepard School, you can't take lessons from those teachers. My guess is that it is the same as Northwestern. The only way you are going to get in is if you have a long standing relationship with the teacher, have amazing talent and the teacher agrees to take you on. Even then, with their teaching load at the music school and their own performance schedule, many teachers refuse to teach outside of their regularly assigned studio. </p>

<p>Our flagship state university has several outstanding teachers. Some teachers will occassionally take on an extra student or a student who is not a performance major, but this is not common practice. So for most applicants the best way to access the best teachers is to go the performance route. For students who are at the very top of their game, they can likely take the route you suggest, but for most students it is not going to be possible. </p>

<p>You mention going to Harvard to study with Weilerstein. That's great IF you can get into Harvard and IF Weilerstein will take you. My guess is that if Weilerstein is your goal you might have a better shot trying to audition into his studio at NEC. </p>

<p>Yes, some musicians will find other ways to get to where they want to go without going by way of the conservatory, but I think that you will find that a large majority will still find it the only feasible way to meet their goals.</p>

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<p>I think that most music students feel this way...they want time to practice and focus on their instrument.</p>

<p>Please help me understand something. If a student chooses the conservatory route, they will be taking music theory, history and other pedagogy courses, in addition to their instrumental obligations (lessons, studio classes, chamber music, ensembles). BUT everything IS related to their music and they will be surrounded by a community that is music related all the time.</p>

<p>If a student goes to a university and majors in something other than music and is able to take private lessons with an amazing teacher...that same student will still be required to take the courses to complete their NON-music major. In addition, there will not be opportunities for studio classes, chamber music, large and small ensembles, etc. </p>

<p>I'm afraid I don't understand how going the non-conservatory route provides MORE time to pursue instrument practice and focus. In fact, I would think that because of the other major, it would actually diminish some of the focus as some focus would certainly have to be placed on that major.</p>

<p>For MY kid (I'll speak only to my kid), being in a community of musicians almost 24/7 was a better way than being surrounded by others who didn't understand why he needed or wanted to be in a practice room hours upon hours. </p>

<p>I guess what I'm wondering...if you really only want to practice your instrumental craft, why would you enroll in college at all? If you have the talent, why wouldn't you just take private lessons from that master teacher...practice all your spare time, and not have any of the distractions of a second major/career?</p>

<p>And I will add...DS felt that his music theory and aural skills classes were essential to his playing of the music. But that's just my kid's opinion.</p>

<p>By the way...he's at a conservatory for grad school. He is a graduate of a music performance program at a major university.</p>

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<p>Well the reasoning is that you have to spend a lot of time in class anyways, might as well learn something you're interested in. As has been established by more people than just myself on here, beyond a certain, fairly fundamental/basic point, theory and all that stuff just becomes tedium that most people forget a month after having to do it. </p>

<p>From an artistic point of view, everyone I know has gotten more out of studying other areas of the humanities than theoretical music courses.</p>

<p>It would require a lot of time management to practice your instrument separately, but I think if you can get into a good school and can play well you've already sort of solved this problem. It's not hard to find 4-5 hours a day, even with a busy academic timetable, and 6-7 hours sleep. But apparently this isn't for everyone. However, for anyone reading for whom this would be an option, consider it.</p>

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<p>well the reason i decided not to pursue a strictly conservatory route was because i felt it is too narrow for someone who is dedicated to academics but also wants to continue music. </p>

<p>at stanford, i have talked to many people about pursuing music. many said that there are amazing musicians there who do not major in music and there are countless opportunities to play in ensembles and even with the orchestra. </p>

<p>for example, Jon Nakamatsu, who was a graduate of Stanford and majored in German, continued to take piano lessons in college. he eventually won gold in the Van Cliburn competition....now that's amazing. he quit his day job and now performs full time. </p>

<p>i think that to understand music at a deep level, one must have a holistic education. yes, music theory and music history are very important, but other aspects of art, language, even math and science are important too. i agree with vieuxtemps5. </p>

<p>however, i do understand those who choose to pursue the conservatory route. if you are 100% sure about music as your career, then a conservatory would be a sure way to go. i have many friends that go to conservatories and love it. if you are unsure about a conservatory, you should definitely try and decide. for example, my friend was accepted to juilliard and eastman last yr as well as yale. so, she took a gap year from yale to see if she will like eastman, where she received a full ride. after a year, she decided it's best for her to go to Yale. i think different people have different goals and needs. conservatory is not for everyone and neither is a university.</p>

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<p>"for example, my friend was accepted to juilliard and eastman last yr as well as yale. so, she took a gap year from yale to see if she will like eastman, where she received a full ride. after a year, she decided it's best for her to go to Yale. i think different people have different goals and needs. conservatory is not for everyone and neither is a university."</p>

<p>Whoaah! That's a surprising strategy... is that legal? Were Yale and Eastman both / either aware of what she was doing, or did she in effect accept 2 different admissions offers, and then tell one of them (Yale) that she's taking a gap year....etc. </p>

<p>Also, what do you cc'ers think; if Yale and Eastman DID unofficially know (or guess) what was happening, would they have seen it as in their own best interest to get revengeful and withdraw their acceptances? or would they have let sleeping dogs lie, since I assume this kid was quite a catch (free ride at Eastman!) </p>

<p>Anyways, perpetualmotion, your friend sounds like quite the playa.</p>

<p>I personally have known of a fair number of kids who moved around between the selective college/conservatory world before they found their niche, but never heard of one doing it this way before.</p>

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<p>I know that when my son took a deferral from Brown for a year, they stipulated that he not register at any other university. He attended some classes in Oxford, England during that year, and we were very careful to check that out with Brown. As long as he was not MATRICULATED at any other school, it was ok.</p>

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<p>Hi Jazzzmomm, Your advice is excellent; I know some students who have gotten in trouble by experimenting with this strategy as well, so anyone who wants to use a conservatory year as a "gap year" before attending another school should be sure to check very carefully or risk losing an acceptance offer!</p>

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<p>If there were a free-for-all about this, imagine all the students who would reserve a place at one top school and take a year to try another top school. It would play havoc with admissions.</p>

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<p>"My brother is at Harvard Law, and he says only one of his friends plans on doing new york city Big law or just a few who wanna do the D.C. thing."</p>

<p>This amuses me. That's what they said 25 years ago, too. What do you suppose they actually did?</p>