July 1st expectations - swimming

<p>What I find so reassuring about this thread is that so many of us appear to be in nearly identical situations. So many thanks to all who have been willing to share and to @asmuoh who keeps this thread current. </p>

<p>Our situation is similar to @Lovemyswimmer and @ahsmuoh. 3 OV’s scheduled, looking/waiting for possibly one more. Some offers that our son declined that were tough, one in particular because the coach is awesome but the overall fit doesn’t seem quite right to him. One particularly hard bit of news from a school that our son was really interested in, but they have too many swimmers ahead of him they would support first – Although they would like him to visit, apply and walk on if accepted…but as @lovemyswimmer reports, perhaps our son is better equipped to deal with the disappointments than I am. He bounces back, and I’m grateful for that.</p>

<p>As others have written, I find the process stressful too, but at least the picture is starting to become more clear. </p>

<p>FWIW - Brown has now hired coaches.</p>

<p>@researchmum. I think I knew that D3 could pay for OVs but they do not have athletic scholarship money. </p>

<p>I saw that Brown hired a women’s coach…didn’t see the announce,net about guys coach. One of my sons friends was talking to Brown. </p>

<p>Hastomen123;</p>

<p>Just a little info on women’s swimming:</p>

<p>1) Coaches will recruit off of junior year SCY and LC times. As you approach coaches in the junior year via email, you should highlight why you think this will be a successful year (first year weight training, first year of doubles, adding weight to a lightweight frame, still adding height–whatever applies to the swimmer.)<br>
2) Make sure coaches know the major junior year meets (big November meet, SCY Juniors, SCY Championships, State Championships for high school, etc) they may wish to follow your swimmer, or can anticipate that you will update your times after each of these meets.
3) A general rule of thumb while identifying target schools is to set academic and athletic expectations. For swimming, its pretty easy to target schools. First, select schools that your D can score at conference championships. Second, select schools that your D would be in the top three swimmers of their fastest three events. Third, identify where the holes are the year your D would enter college at your target schools. If your D is a 200 flyer, and there are three at the school that won’t graduate before she get’s there–and they are faster than she is–then you have your position in ranking.
4) A lot of college coaches assume girls peak at 16-17 years old, and they hope that the swimmer can maintain that speed in college, so they recruit comfortably on the junior year times. If a coach identifies a swimmer still growing, or someone they think they could add muscle weight to in college, they will be very interested in that swimmer. Note that very few senior year swimmers actually have marked improvements in their times. First, they miss 10 to 15 fall practices for official visits (each of the 5 visits can eat away 2-3 practices while the swimmer is gone), they are distracted with college applications, etc. Many, many seniors post signing NLI’s are slightly less focused on their times. </p>

<p>If you have specific questions, please feel free to PM me. I have a college sophomore D swimming D1.</p>

<p>For everyone feeling the stress right now–just remember your S or D is too, even if they don’t talk about it. Keep a cool demeanor…it will work out. It is not fun. However, it will be fun the day the athlete signs/commits. That’s the day you’ll enjoy all of this.</p>

<p>Also, don’t forget to talk to your S or D about your expectations for their behavior on OVs relating to the point at which they are offered alcohol–because most will be offered something during the next few weeks and should be prepared how to handle it. </p>

<p>One other thing–make sure your S or D has cash with them during the OV. They won’t need it typically. However, there are many tales of a recruit getting left behind somewhere and needing a taxi ride back to the dorm, or needing to buy a bottle of water to avoid the offer of alcohol, etc. “Safety money” is a good thing. Well orchestrated visits will not require any cash. However, your S or D is being “hosted” by a kid that’s typically only been in college 3-6 weeks themselves (freshmen) who are still learning how to be on their own, much less helping your S or D with their visit.</p>

<p>@swim4school‌ Thanks for the advice. I think most of it can apply to guys too. I will say though that I would also avoid talking too much about “college swimming” and the importance of junior year times with your swimmer. We see so many “jr year flops” around here because of the pressure. You see sophomores and seniors swim really well at the big meets and not so much the juniors. We tried to avoid the talk and my son still had a mediocre state meet. Too many emails from coaches. Our high school season is on the winter so the state meet is not until February so he had many coaches emailing him by that time and telling him they would be watching the results. I believe this did NOT help. And my son has always been the “big meet” racer - just not this past year. His summer was better because he had a better idea of how the recruiting was going to go. </p>

<p>I agree. I have seem Juniors collapse under the pressure of trying to get times for college swimming. It’s better for a swimmer to feel like they are swimming for themselves, rather than a spot on a team. </p>

<p>One solution to alleviate the pressure is visit and consider a school that my not be at the top of its league but is enjoying a great team camaraderie and steadily improving swim times. There are some D1 level swimmers at my S2’s college that chose D3 and that particular college team because of the coaching and overall atmosphere of the team and the school. They have been extremely happy with their choice and continue to work as hard and improve as if they were on a D1 team. Someone said to pick the college first and I agree. I hope this helps some of you stressing in the process to step back and not be concerned as much about whether coaches want you but rather if you want to attend that school and swim on that team. </p>

<p>@1happydad, thanks. I guess I find the idea of having top 16 conference times as a junior in hs to be an unlikely coaching benchmark. If all of the schools did that, then 10 of the top 16 in each event at conference finals would be freshmen. </p>

<p>Shouldn’t a good coach make swimmers faster than they were in hs? I thought women don’t hit their athletic peak until 26. </p>

<p>I think it depends on the swimmers physique and what kind of training they have had prior to college. If they have already done weight training, perhaps there is less potential compared to someone who didn’t do any weight training. I have followed a few swimmers from our area as they went to college. Most improved early but then leveled off. </p>

<p>@Hastomen123‌ I agree that you hope they get faster and it really does depend on how intense their high school training was. We have a club here locally that turns out amazing high school swimmers but has the reputation of their alumni not doing as well in college because they just push them so much in jr high and high school. If you look at the conference meet - those schools that are in the top 5 of their conference do have success recruiting kids that would score in high school but the teams that are in the middle or toward the bottom typically do not. My son is looking at schools in big conferences but not necessarily in the top 5 - but have plans to get there (or at least that is what they are telling him). This seems to be the right place for him. He might be top 24 at conference but not top 16 yet ;)</p>

<p>@Hastomen - I’m sorry, I don’t remember writing to you about that, and I guess I’m too lazy to scroll back through the 13 pages to find where I might have. But, it wouldn’t completely surprise me if I did write something along those lines. Pretty much the coaches we talked to, when this particular subject came up, all wanted swimmers that can score a conference right away. I’m a bit like you. Some schools can want these types of swimmers, and they will get them. But for some schools, such desire seems more aspirational than real. @ahsmuoh seems pretty right on with her observation about top 5 vs others in the conference. Here’s a current story.</p>

<p>One particular school I have in mind told our son that he was just off the list of recruits that they were going to fly in. I have no doubt that there are that many swimmers faster than our son who wish to go visit that school. But I also have little doubt that the vast majority of those visiting swimmers will attend other schools. Of course I don’t know this, but when I look at their actual recruit list for the last few years, and where they are performing year after year at conference, I can’t help but think they’d be better served bringing in athletes at a slightly lower level but with more likelihood of attending, and building up the program that way. Looking at the times of the recruits this year, they got two that met their criteria but another 8 that did not. But temper everything I write as that of a parent of a current recruit fully enmeshed in the process right now.</p>

<p>@swim4school - A really timely and much appreciated post. Know that it helped at least one family. Thank you.</p>

<p>Hi all. I like @1HappyDad‌’s thoughts on how the coaches recruit because I couldn’t agree more, but I suppose they recruit like that because they get the press for having the xst/nd/rd/the best recruiting class of 2015 etc etc. I also agree with @ahsmuoh‌ as to which schools might be the best to go for. @ahsmuoh‌, we also have clubs here that max out their Junior swimmers, most of whom then never have any success at senior level - if they break into the senior ranks at all, and that is bearing in mind that we are a very small country (fewer people = fewer swimmers = less competition). There are a couple of programmes that seem to send swimmers to the US every year. I am yet to see one of them that has made an improvement of more than 0.5s over 100m in their best event (all of them are sprinters). Some of them have been in the US for at least 4 years! </p>

<p>It is interesting to see the newly published rosters. Some schools have gaping holes in some of their events/ will have once their current seniors graduate - they were probably the ones telling recruits they wanted people who could score in their conferences and ended up getting no one. Incidentally, my S had interest from some top schools where his converted times would not have featured on their conference’ stop 16, but none from less successful schools in less competitive conferences. I am not certain that it is easy to reason how this game is played.</p>

<p>A question, if anyone knows… Must they attend parties on the OV? Is is a faux pas to decline a party invite? OK, doing so might highlight you as not being a social animal, but what if you aren’t? Any thoughts and/or suggestions will be most welcome.</p>

<p>@ahsmuoh‌, I just remembered that your S must have now had his first OV. I hope it went well. Please tell us how it went :)</p>

<p>@1HappyDad‌ I think your post was right on but the question is how do they go to the next tier and how long does it take. My son is seriously considering the school he visited this past weekend which we all agree is a great fit for him but he has two other schools that have invited him but with the caveat that there is little to no money. I just think by middle of October it will be more clear. My son really doesn’t want to wait until the October to commit. So many decisions to make - UGH!</p>

<p>@Researchmum‌ I think we cross posted. He really liked the school, team and coaches. The coach told him that they never make offers on the OV because they feel like the kid should go home and think about and talk to their parents before they hear the offer. He is supposed to hear from the coach this week sometime. </p>

<p>I have also wondered about my son not getting contacted but schools that he would be at the top. He has been in contact with a few but not many. My son has pretty narrow criteria so most of these don’t fit what he is looking for - mostly in the university as a whole. </p>

<p>@ahsmuoh‌ Congratulations on your son’s trip. I’m like @Researchmum and would like to hear more details about the trip itself. Did he attend a class, did he go to a game, did he interact with teammates or recruits more, did he attend a party, how did he handle the drinking thing, what were his general impressions etc…</p>

<p>But, with the strong caveat that there is no way that I know enough about your situation to have a genuine opinion, I do have a question. It sounds like your son enjoyed his visit and you all like the school. It also sounds like the school is going to offer your son some money and that’s always an important consideration. It has to be pretty tempting to put this process behind you, so I’m wondering what would hold your son back from taking the money and making the commitment? </p>

<p>FWIW I also think the landscape will change dramatically by mid October. A lot of recruits will have made decisions, freeing up spots for other recruits etc…What I’m less sure about is how much scholarship room any of that will open up. – I really don’t have a good sense of coaches handle that as there isn’t a lot to go around in men’s swimming.</p>

<p>@1HappyDad‌ and @Researchmum‌ Ok. Here is as much detail as he gave me. This particular school has “dry recruiting” so there was no alcohol offering. He did go to a game - was on the field and loved that experience,. Stayed in a hotel by himself the first night that he flew in. Coach picked him up from the airport and then again from the hotel Stayed with a freshman swimmer in a suite of 4 swimmers. Across the hall was another suite of 2 freshmen and 2 sophomores. So he spent a significant amount of time with the freshman swimmers. Some time with sophomores and not much with upperclassmen. He had one on one meetings with the head coach and the coach that he would spend the most time with. Met with an academic advisor in his major, met with strength coach and got a tour of school and athletic facilities. One night was the football game. The other night was a pizza party at the rec center. They also played basketball and other things. </p>

<p>I don’t think there is anything holding my son back from accepting an offer (if it is what we need financially) and be done. Something tells me he should go on at least one other OV but if he doesn’t see the need we are ok with his decision. All of his friends that have gone through this in years past have told him that it is so exhausting and if he is lucky enough to be one and done he should do it. We will see. </p>

<p>Please ask any other specific questions. I’ll try to answer any questions. </p>

<p>@ahsmuoh‌, wow that sounds great. Sorry, I think we did cross post earlier but I am so glad that @1HappyDad‌ asked for details (thanks) - your S is a pioneer, foraying into lands and territories ours haven’t been ;). I love the sound of the school that your S went to. I think that they have ‘dry recruiting’ shows that they have put a lot of thought into what they are doing, with the recruits’ and swimmers’ best interests at the fore. Well done to your S for giving you so much detail - a boy after my own heart. The only time I ever get anything decent from this S (he has a brother) is when he’s been away from home for at least a week. Other times, and especially when he knows I am desperate for the information I am trying to get, he clams up. It can be so frustrating!</p>

<p>Well good luck from over here!!!</p>

<p>@ahsmuoh, thank you for your generous sharing. @Researchmum is right, you are the pioneer. </p>

<p>All of us have good problems being the parents of recruitable athletes, but my wife and I were having dinner with a few sets of parents with kids that are not athletes, and I don’t think there is a lot of appreciation for how difficult this process can be. What those parents saw was that our son has a chance to get into a good school “through the side door” if his application is supported by the team (which in itself is a soft discounting of all of the hard academic work that he’s put in…)</p>

<p>What these parents don’t see is for the most part our kids have to make a decision about six months earlier than their kids do. – And a lot can happen in six months of a senior year. These kids are going through a lot of change. These parents also don’t see that our kids might not be supported at their first choice school, so our kids have to make a decision about whether or not to apply to that first choice and take a chance anyway while fully knowing what they are giving up – Our kids don’t really get to play the admissions lottery and let serendipity help shape the final college choice the way many kids do. And most importantly, when our kids say no to a particular school, they aren’t saying no to some anonymous admissions committee, they are saying no directly to some good people with whom they’ve established relationships. That’s a lot more personal, direct, and difficult. </p>

<p>There is a big growth opportunity for our kids buried in all of this, and its important to remember that, but it is a lot for a 17 year old (it’s a lot for anybody). And sometimes it’s hard. No wonder this process is exhausting.</p>

<p>@asmuoh, I have to admit a ‘one and done’ sounds pretty good about now. First visit in a couple weeks…Thanks again for sharing.</p>

<p>1HappyDad, great post. I wish I could share this with all my friends and family who are navigating this process without the athletic angle. And for a middle class family, the loss of ability to compare scholarship offers is a huge sacrifice. Two visits for my kid scheduled later this month, though, and we are all excited.</p>