<p>Agree, even shifting focus from D1 (though not ruling it out) to D3, still the D3 coaches want to “know their team by December”.</p>
<p>I haven’t been posting but I have been reading! Thanks very much all of you for sharing, it is so very helpful. My daughter went d3 back in fall 2012 but had one d1 visit and that was enough. It was NOT dry, LOL. Neither were the d3 visits but they were shorter and less formal. I think she was extremely shocked at the drinking culture–she’d never seen anything like it. I would definitely recommend warning any kids who might have been sheltered from that sort of thing. Even the nicest, most studious swim teams have some elements of this and it can be a rude shock.</p>
<p>Good luck to you all!</p>
<p>Ha. I laugh at my son being a “pioneer”! I was talking with a friend today about the process and she reminded me that we actually attended 6 Junior days. This was a good reminder because indeed my son had met 6 programs including coaches, swimmers and staff. At the junior days he saw the facilities, heard about the academic offerings, saw the gyms and dorms etc. so he really has had 6 Unofficial visits I guess. He even got to go to games and be on the field ;). </p>
<p>@1HappyDad Your points about how others see this is very good. I have a daughter who chose not to swim in college so I have been through this process with it being a purely academic and scholarship search. It is definitely different. My son is a more decisive person so I think it will work out. My only fear is his #1 will come back to him before the November signing with an OV offer. I think that will be very difficult for my son to turn down even though he said there is no way he would verbally commit and then go back on his word. Even though there is nothing “illegal” about doing so - he feels it is unethical. I think I agree with him but I also realize it is a business for the coaches and swim programs. </p>
<p>Can’t wait to hear about others OV’s. @acemom. Pretty exciting to have two scheduled. I’ll let you know what end with my son. I still am unclear about how the “offer” part with play out. </p>
<p>ahsomuoh;</p>
<p>Congrats on a succesful visit. There is nothing wrong–at all–with one and done. However, I would really encourage your S and your family to wait a week before telling the coach to gain perspective. Most of the swimmers have a really good time on their visits–who doesn’t like to hang out with other swimmers, eat good food and get fawned over? Its the reward for all their hard work. When the swimmer comes home, most kids love each visit and its only after a few days–even a week, that there can be some critical thinking put into the decision making process. Perspective.</p>
<p>If you could convince him, it would be the safest approach to go on one more visit so he has a comparison. Its time consuming, but then he could make a decision knowing, without a doubt of any kind, that the first school is the best fit. (I like xxx most at this school, but I like yyy most at the second school, and xxx outweighs yyy in my decision.)</p>
<p>It’s a great problem to have. Here’s to hoping the financial side of things works out. Whatever you do, do NOT reneg on other visits until you fully understand the financial offer from the first school. Worst case is he selects school number one, and the financial offer is not tolerable and the negotiation process fails-- while you have turned down other OVs in the meantime. </p>
<p>Thanks @vandyswim. That’s good advice. He has talked to the coach and they have told him an offer is forthcoming but probably will not be completed for another week. They have another group of recruits coming in tonight. They have 4 weekends total of OV’s. He told the coach that he is very interested but because he can’t risk losing the opportunity for a second or third OV he is going to schedule at least one more. We think this is a good idea. The coach said he understood. So, I guess it’s not always great to be on the first visit. He still feels confident about it though. </p>
<p>So those of you with experience - at what point does the parent get involved? I’ve told my son that he can not accept an offer without us talking to the coach and really understanding the full offer. He’s ok with that but I am not sure when that call is appropriate?</p>
<p>Here’s what I would recommend–let the coach make the offer verbally to your son. Coach your S to say "thank you for the offer, I need to fully discuss it with my parents. I will call you back in xx days (2-3 are probably a good amount.) Don’t be surprised to hear coach say “hurry up, must make a decision, etc…” </p>
<p>Then, as a parent/child combo, sit down and look at the offer, and build out a set of questions for the coach. If the offer is a percentage offer, then you’ll want to know the answer to “percentage of what?” Tuition? Room and Board? Books? If the offer is a flat dollar amount, ask about the typical increases in scholarship each year (tuition will definitely increase, so if you aren’t careful here, you’ll be going backwards each year in what you have to pay.) Perhaps you’ll need to ask about athletic dining package costs, travel costs for training trip, any expenses you’ll be expected to pick up.</p>
<p>Anyway, make the list of questions. Then have your S call the coach and request a time where your S, coach and you can be on the phone. It could be the answer is “let’s do it right now” or it could be a set time. Then together get on the phone with the coach (speaker phone is handy in this effort) and talk to the coach together. Have your S ask the main questions (he’s “in control”) but you ask the harder, more gritty detailed questions–after all, you are the one paying the rest of the bill, you need to understand what you are getting yourself into fully. You may also have to have a conversation with the financial aid office if appropriate, so do that as well prior to accepting. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, S may be on another OV, and get another offer. Getting a second offer can sometimes clue you into how good the first one really is, and if you are missing things you should be requesting. It will educate you further.</p>
<p>If a coach gives an offer out, they will want an answer. Just explain that you are super interested but you have to do your homework/due diligence before accepting. Whatever you do, don’t get caught up in the “we have to a decision today thing.” Take your time, this is four years of your son’s education and four years of expense for you.</p>
<p>Any OV’s this weekend? Would love to hear!</p>
<p>@ahsmuoh - Nothing to report on this end yet. A couple more weekends before the first visit. Son seems pretty excited about it.</p>
<p>A friend of his went on a trip to Hawaii. It included a team swim in Waimea, a BBQ on the beach, and surfing. I still have a few years of eligibility left – Sign me up! All I gotta do is work on my old man speed… </p>
<p>I did have a question for the group. I thought I saw at one time a list of questions to ask/things for our kids to think about during their recruiting trips, but I can’t find it now. Does anybody have such a list? Would be grateful if someone is willing to share.</p>
<p>Here is one list that I found and gave to my daughter:</p>
<ol>
<li>Ask about the weekly training schedule. Will you be doing three mornings a week? Five? How does dryland/weight training fit into the schedule?</li>
<li>Find out how a typical team practice is structured. Many teams split into sprint/middle distance/distance every day. Others might have an IM/Breaststroke group, a Fly group, and a backstroke group. Other teams might split the groups one way on Mondays, a different way on Tuesdays, etc.</li>
<li>Ask about summer training. Do most swimmers stick around in the summer? What does the coaching staff expect of swimmers who go home for the summer? Is there long course training available at school during the summer?</li>
<li>What is the housing situation on the team? Some schools require athletes to live on campus during their freshman and sophomore years. Other schools may have housing that is close to the pool or classes where athletes typically live. Would you be able/encouraged to room with one of your swimming teammates?</li>
<li>Ask about the training philosophy of the coaching staff. Are they a mega-distance team? Are they a sprint-based team? Will their philosophy on training help you improve?</li>
<li>Have the coaches had success with swimmers of your ability in your events? In their experience, what are the characteristics of swimmers who are typically successful in their program.</li>
<li>Ask how you fit into the team. What events will they expect you to swim? Where are you on the depth chart? Do they expect you to be a contributor on relays?</li>
<li>What are the coaches’ goals for the team this year? Next year? Where do they see the program going during your next four years?</li>
<li>Ask about financial aid. See SwimSwam’s article on how to ask for a swim scholarship.</li>
<li>If you want to go on an official visit, ask if that is an opportunity that they can provide for you. What are the procedures for getting one set up?</li>
<li> If you are going on a visit, ask to sit in on a class, see athlete housing, and anything else that will help you get “the feel” of what it is like to be an athlete at the school.</li>
<li>What coach or coaches will you be training with primarily? Based on your training group, you are likely to see an assistant or the head coach more frequently than others. You should at least get to meet or speak with this person.</li>
</ol>
<p>@VMT…that’s a great list of questions. Thanks for sharing! I have a few more from a conversation we had today with a recruiting coach. Some are for the host athletes and some are for the coach.</p>
<p>In terms of atmosphere and campus life…a big one is the food.</p>
<p>What is the food situation for athletes? Is there a plan where athletes can eat whenever they need to since they will often miss regular meal times? </p>
<p>In terms of the whole recruiting process…</p>
<p>What is your timeline for wrapping up your recruiting?
Where do I stand on your list of recruits? (pretty obvious one here)
If the don’t offer you a spot: Is there anything else I can do to be more marketable to the team? Are there opportunities if I hit your times in Dec or Jan but don’t have them now?
What’s the next step? (basically, do they call you or do you call me?) When can I expect to hear from you again?
If they offer you a spot: When do I need to make a decision by? </p>
<p>And a few more in terms of being part of the team…
What is the scholarship situation? Is there more money available the longer I’m with the team?
What about team travel? How many do you take on travel trips?
How well do the student-athletes balance academics and swimming?</p>
<p>No trips for us yet. First one is a week from Thursday!</p>
<p>So one of my big questions is what happens on the nights that they are on their recruiting trips? I am certain that pretty much every word and every action is reported back to the coach. What do they do if they are faced with a party situation that they are uncomfortable at? My S has never been to a party where there has been alcohol (really), and I am fairly certain that at least one of the schools he is visiting they will take him to a party on Friday night (regardless of whether they say there won’t be alcohol, I’m sure it happens all the time). Are they expected to partake? Are they expected to decline? What do the coaches expect of the recruits? I’m sure all this varies from school to school, but I’m wondering what the scuttlebutt is out there. </p>
<p>I also feel very much like they are there to “sell themselves.” How do they do that? I know that at one school my S is one of about 6 sprinters they are looking at for 1-2 positions. His times aren’t going to change between his visit and the time they make their decision. His academics are very strong. I keep telling him to just be himself, but is there any other advice anyone can give on this topic? </p>
<p>Thanks to you all…I love this thread! Will we ever get to share where our kids all end up? </p>
<p>@Lovemyswimmer As to avoiding the alcohol situation I think your S will be in good company and is going to be completely fine saying “no thanks” to any offer, or simply avoid it, and that response will be respected by the current team members and most certainly by the coach. There was alcohol at the party my D attended but luckily she had a real easy out because all recruits were required to sign a statement that they would not consume alcohol or partake of illegal drugs for the 48 hours + they were there on their recruiting trip. Yes assume everything gets back to the coach even if actually doesn’t…</p>
<p>There is some great advice on the Orinda Aquatics (club team) website about about the recruitment trip and would encourage you all to look at that. If I was more techno savvy I’d create a link, but you should be able to google it. Basically it talks about the recruit being in gratitude and to show his/her appreciation for the official visit to the coach, future teammates for their time spent with the recruits, and to follow up with a thank you after the OV even if the school is not his/her top choice.</p>
<p>Attitude of the recruit is very important. We know of a situation where a very fast recruit with impressive times was shunned by his prospective teammates for acting like he was God’s gift to swimming on the recruiting weekend. Humility goes a long way in this situation and that was more important than fast times in this particular instance. The recruit was not given an offer BTW.</p>
<p>Also for some schools the strong academics of their recruits are almost as important since coaches love to say that X swimmers on my team made the scholastic conference team , have 3.5 GPAs etc. and that their prospective swimmers will be around in coming years because they can handle the academic rigors of that particular college.</p>
<p>@swimdogmom this is all good information and advice. Thanks! Here is the link in case anyone is interested. I have only skimmed it, but it is very helpful…it gives us and our kids a lot to think about. I am definitely going to have my son read it this weekend!</p>
<p><a href=“Redirecting...”>Redirecting...;
<p>@Lovemyswimmer Thanks for your questions too. I think my son actually found out the answers to most of these questions just by being their for 48 hours. He asked some but he didn’t really have to take a list…it just flowed as they were hosting him. </p>
<p>As far as the parties. My son was lucky that the OV that he attended was “dry” so he was not put in an awkward situation. But we did prepare him for the possibility and he was planning to say no thanks. </p>
<p>I have a question. It seems like several of you have spoken to the coaches. My H and I have not (other than shaking their hands at junior days). Did you call them separate from her swimmer? Did you jump on a call? I feel like it is time for us to talk to the coach but the time hasn’t seemed obvious. I told my son that I will talk to the coach once he gets an offer - he was ok with that but thinks he is ok until that time comes. Comments?</p>
<p>One more @Lovemyswimmer How do you know that your son is one sprinter out of 6 sprinters to fill 1-2 spots? Did the coach tell your son? We would love to know who else is being brought in but other than the kids on my sons trips he hasn’t figured out how to know. Unless you are going to a school that is getting “press” on swim swam and the top recruits are visiting ;)</p>
<p>@VMT - Thank you so much. Nice list! Printed it off and ready to share with our son.</p>
<p>@Lovemyswimmer - Thanks for the additional questions.</p>
<p>@swimdogmom - Ron and Don run a really nice program over at Orinda. I don’t know Ron as well as Don, but I might be mistaken on that because who can tell the difference? I might have been talking with Ron when I thought I was talking to Don. Lots of great stuff on their website. I printed off some of it to give to our son. So thanks for that link @lovemyswimmer.</p>
<p>@ahsmuoh - I have the same question as you about when to talk to the coach. I was figuring it would happen after our son decides, but before he commits, but the more experienced hands on the board can probably guide us better. The way I met a lot of coaches was during meetings when we toured various schools (I think it added up to about a dozen over the last year and a half).</p>
<p>@ahsmuoh - yes, the coach told my son upfront that he was one of six sprinters that they were looking at to fill one to two spots. In a way I wish I didn’t know…it’s not very good odds, so now I’m nervous for him. We don’t know anything about the other kids, though, so maybe something else will stand out in his favor when he is there. </p>
<p>Neither my H nor I have spoken to any coaches yet except the one visit that my S and I took this summer and I was in the meeting with him. I figure the time for that will come when and if he gets an offer. He really wants to do most of this himself. I keep trying to help him with emails and we totally clash on what to write. I want to be friendly and wordy and he wants to just be short and to the point! It makes me crazy, but it’s not my gig, so I bite my tongue. 
</p>
<p>@Lovemyswimmer well it seems that are sons are the same person :). My son wants to do it all himself too which I know is what the coaches want too. He is also very brief with his emails but that is ok. He sometimes asks me to read them to make sure they sound ok. </p>
<p>Thought I’d check in and give our thread a little bump. How is it going everyone?</p>
<p>I talked to one of the local coaches about this process. He’s been through it a bunch of times. We’ve been helping another swimmer though his process as we work through it with our son (@ahsmuoh this is the kid I was referencing a long time ago, and you commented that his time is very close to your son’s) One school in particular that this swimmer was interested in told him that they were also interested in him but he was just off their list of recruits that they would pay to fly out. I was a little surprised given this school’s recruit times this year, so I mentioned it to our local coach. His comment was that a whole bunch of schools have their eye on the same top 50 swimmers, that many are not realistically going to land them, and that opportunities will be opening up from now through April as swimmers make commitments.</p>
<p>Seeing a lot of commitments starting to come out on SwimSwam. Has anybody seen/suspect any changes as a result?</p>
<p>Hello! Popping on tonight as well to check in. My S goes on his first OV tomorrow (first time traveling completely alone…how did this even happen? When did they get so big???)! Am going to give him that list of questions from a while back that we were all looking at. Who knows if he will actually look at them, but at least I can try. Maybe he’ll get bored on the plane…</p>
<p>I think you are right, @1HappyDad…the fastest swimmers are making commitments which will open some doors for some of our kids. My S has had a slew of new interest over the past two weeks. I guess now that school and the new season is underway, they are really trying to nail down their classes for next year. One coach called him on his cell today during the day, didn’t reach him, called the house - again, during the day - couldn’t reach him, so sent him an email - today. Yikes! </p>
<p>What’s new with everyone else? How are the OV’s going? </p>
<p>@1HappyDad about your swimmer friend. I think when you are told that you are on the top of the “B” list you really don’t know what to do. First off - do you believe them and second - are they recruiting your strokes this year? One of the coaches actually offered an OV to my son but told him that his races aren’t on the top of their recruiting needs this year so they weren’t sure if he would get an offer. We all appreciate the honesty. He chose not to go to that OV. </p>
<p>@Lovemyswimmer - I remain convinced that our boys are going to wind up on a recruiting trip together. They are at the very least living parallel lives. I dropped our son off at the airport this morning at oh dark thirty. It’s also his first solo adventure (but not his first trip without his parents). I don’t know how all this started happening so fast either. A year from now, we will be empty nester’s, and I am in no way ready…</p>
<p>I noticed a young lady with swimmer hair and a JNat sweatshirt in the security line not too far back from our son, so I suspect a lot of trips are happening this weekend.</p>
<p>@ahsmuoh - The young man we’ve been helping just seems so overwhelmed by the whole process. Part of his issue is he started late. His parents don’t understand swimming, they were getting frustrated with their son’s lack of communication and apparent lack of progress, so they asked if we could step in and help. We showed him how to register on CollegeSwimming, gave him sample letters to coaches that our son had written, helped him find good school/team matches, and got him started with a couple of coaches/teams. The one school that seemed like such a good fit invited him for a visit, but only if he paid his own way. It was tempting because so far, as fast as this young man is (and good ACT and grades) he doesn’t have any visits lined up yet. He decided to wait a bit and see how things shake out.</p>
<p>Ultimately this kid is too fast and too smart to not wind up with some nice opportunities and I’m betting this particular school will come back to him in another month asking him to come visit, but it’s much easier to be sanguine about the whole thing when it isn’t your own kid… </p>