<p>Well the coach called back and apologized for the text. He said he has an automatic response when he is driving if he misses a call to say that he can’t talk right now. Makes sense. He did say he needed to take it off because he is not suppose to text recruits. Again, not a big deal. </p>
<p>@1HappyDad thanks. It is a rather interesting journey, this…</p>
<p>Maybe because we are International, we are looking at things a little bit differently to most US kids, I think. We are not averse to S swimming in D3 even though he has courted a bit of D1 interest. If he must attend university in America, I just want him to go where will be best for him as a person (not just as a swimmer, or even as a student), and that complicates things even more. E.g., he loves competing and so I am worried about him maybe saying he wants to go to a big name swimming school in D1, where he will not get to swim for the school for 2-3 years. I know that is the norm for most kids of his standard, but I don’t know if that would be any good for him in the long run.</p>
<p>A couple of really top schools have actually advised S to apply RD to give him a chance to sit the standardised tests a couple more times (he has 1 set of mediocre results from the June ACTs). I was really surprised when they said this as I thought what you said, but it seems that most Internationals don’t sign till the 2nd period. One of them is an Ivy, and they said that as long as he had the grades they would support him through admissions RD - again, I haven’t read that on this board; another thing that makes me think that the rules for Internationals are a bit different.</p>
<p>So far I think about 5 schools have already initiated the talk about finances. “Will you need substantial scholarship?” “How much will you need to be able to attend?” "How much can you afford to pay?"etc. S doesn’t know how much we can, or can’t afford, nor does he know how much we his parents earn. He knows what we do for a living, but that is about it. Personally, I am not sure that this is an appropriate conversation for a 17 year old anyway, and I personally am really liking the couple of schools that prefaced their question with ‘ask your parents/ have a talk with your parents and let us know’ etc. Having said, no one has offered him a specific amount, and so it could all be a storm in a teacup. Also, a lot of schools are wary of Internationals because a lot of Internationals cannot afford to attend unless they get a full ride. Whilst that is not us, it makes sense for the coaches to try and establish early on if they are wasting their time. </p>
<p>About the coach who said S didn’t meet school’s consideration times, it was a Blessing. I am a mother who prays, and God can answer prayers in mysterious ways :D.</p>
<p>If his coming out over Easter is going to be too late, then maybe that might be another way that my prayers are being answered haha. </p>
<p>@ahsmuoh, thanks. The worry is making my hair grow grey faster, and I keep having to repeat the L’Oreal by- line “because I am worth it” to myself when I have to have my hair coloured more often than before lol.</p>
<p>@researchmum I have also noticed that internationals often sign in the late period (and some not until the summer). To the best of my knowledge, Ivy’s do not give athletic scholarships so I would think it would be safe to wait if the coach advised to do so. I never really understood the two signing periods and how the coaches managed the scholarships. My friend did tell me that his daughters scholarship was increased by 10% in the spring - maybe they didn’t get a late signee that they thought they might get? Not sure.</p>
<p>This is proving to be a bit more nerve wracking than I thought! I am trying to be low key at home - glad I have this group to “talk” to! Son did get a call today from a coach that he was hoping to get - so that is good! Still waiting on one more that he is really hoping to get an OV from - but this is the one that asked for his grades/test scores so they have shown interest - just haven’t called. (his grades and test scores are in the top 25% for the school so it wasn’t the grades that would have changed anything).</p>
<p>@ahsmuoh, hang on in there, your S will be fine, and I feel certain will get great offers - all the early indicators point to it. </p>
<p>No, I am sure you are right that Ivies don’t give scholarships, I only mentioned the Ivy with regard to the RD advice given, because as with the scholarship schools, the advice I had read on this board was that Ivies (the top ones) will only support you through admissions during the early signing period, and I thought I would share that this practice may perhaps not be set in stone.</p>
<p>It is all very strange, and like you, I really value this board, and in particular this thread; thank you for starting it and sharing it with the rest of us.</p>
<p>@Researchmum actually your post makes a lot of sense, and kind of ties together a loose end in my understanding as well. I knew that coaches reserved a slot or two for the RD period, but we’ve been universally advised to apply early. I didn’t really know who coaches might be saving those RD spots for. A pool of international swimmers makes more sense from a coaches perspective than “just in case.” But I’m glad you’ll get an opportunity to visit before making a commit. I had a hard time envisioning what it would be like for you trying to visit schools from across the ocean.</p>
<p>I believe your point about swimming for a top top swimming school is spot on. I’ve seen some incredible swimmers, top 3 high school swimmers in the country types, who get to some of these very fast college teams and struggle to make the travel team for dual meets. Freshman year can be a challenge in these situations. Think of it this way. Imagine you are a 4:30 (SCY) 500 freestyler, you are about the 50th fastest 500 free HS swimmer in the country, and about the 20th fastest rising senior. Life is good. But, if you go to a Cal or a Michigan or a Texas, there are already half a dozen or more guys on the roster ahead of you. And, you’ll need to drop 12 seconds, down to a 4:18, to make NCAA’s (that was the cut this year). Typically that doesn’t happen in a year or even two…So unless you are Ryan Murphy, Freshman year can be a tough road for some amazing swimmers. Don’t get me wrong. 4:30 gets you onto a lot of rosters, and into a lot of very happy situations involving scholarships, but even just the swimming piece of this thing is all about fit. And then we throw academic fit and finances on top of it…sheesh, no wonder this is a stressful process!</p>
<p>As for the finance thing. I don’t understand financial conversations with a 17 year old either. It’s maybe a quarter of a million dollar decsion we are talking about here (sorry don’t know the pounds conversion off the top of my head, but it’s a lot). So far as I know, coaches that my son has spoken with haven’t asked him about finances, but they have advised that he make sure to discuss it with us, and one coach has asked me directly…But also so far as I know, there haven’t been any scholarship considerations for our son. It must be far more difficult for you</p>
<p>Since you may have something of a direct line, and there is so much to balance in this process, how about a prayer for all the kids of parents on this thread that they all find the right fit? Every little bit helps…</p>
<p>It may seem unwise to discuss finances with a 17 year old (in my case it was a 16 year old) but all the students here on CC are told to discuss finances with their parents before wildly applying to schools that are unaffordable, and it is a fact that many athletes are looking for money. There were several schools we could not have afforded without athletic money. One coach told me she did not give money to freshmen, and that school was off the list. I appreciated the coaches who were up front about the money and how it worked. I had no idea that the school couldn’t give athletic money and school need based aid (federal is okay). I wasn’t sure if we should be getting a percentage of COA or a flat dollar amount. It took talking to 2-3 coaches, and reading some articles, to figure out how athletic money worked with merit aid, financial aid, and family contribution.</p>
<p>If you don’t want your child to know how much you make, give them a dollar amount that they need to be looking for. I told my child what I could afford to pay and the amount she needed in athletic and merit aid had to meet the remainder. In the end, I discussed the finances with the coach as it became a little too complicated for my daughter.</p>
<p>She has a teammate who chose a school more based on the scholarship than the school or team. I asked her parents how they decided (they looked at 15 or more schools) and they said the school provided the most money. They had experience with two other children going to top rated schools (without sports) and watched them borrow money, but for this child they went for the money. She isn’t as strong a student as her sisters, so she went for the sports money.</p>
<p>Teams only have so much money to award. Missy Franklin may be getting a full scholarship, but most students on non-head count sports are taking small slices of the pie. If Missy gets a full package, everyone else on the team gets less. Some schools divide the money equally, others reward performance. </p>
<p>You have to talk about the money if you need money.</p>
<p>Hopefully your kids are taking notes, at least mental notes, when they talk to these coaches. Their gut reaction can be equally important in this decision process along with the right fit academically, location, finances, etc. Knowing that there is a little more than a smidge of used car salesmanship going right now, it may be helpful to look back on their notes from these discussions when deciding OVs to accept and spending time with the team and coach. Some of the best advice from CC that I shared with my D was listen to what your gut is telling you. Good luck and enjoy!</p>
<p>I have an S16 who’s a swimmer, and I am learning a lot from this thread. Thanks to all of you. My son isn’t fast enough to swim D1, but he should get some interest from some D3 schools with strong academics. More than anything, he loves to swim and loves the camaraderie of his swim buddies – in his spare time he hangs out with his club teammates much more than his high school friends. </p>
<p>Last year one of the girls on his club team was strongly encouraged by the coach of a D3 school (that was a great academic ‘fit’) to apply ED. She did, and was rejected. Of course, one can only try the ED route with one school (except for those rare schools that have ED1 and ED2), and she really felt bitter about the whole experience. I guess this is just another pitfall in the process.</p>
<p>Again, thanks for sharing your experiences.</p>
<p>ED routes vary. My son is very likely going to go with ED at one Ivy, then ED II at his second choice, a D3 school that has a good reputation in his field. It is a really good feeling that he can apply to the second one after he gets a decision from the first.</p>
<p>Look into it, and you might find a good combination of not completely losing the “ED edge” at all the colleges except one.</p>
<p>You also might look into a pre-read, where admissions looks at your son’s application in time for him to apply ED elsewhere if they say “eh”.</p>
<p>Welcome to everyone new on this thread. </p>
<p>@1HappyDad Funny your “hypothetical” swimmer in the 500 is almost dead on my son!!! I appreciate your comments and we have had the same exact thoughts. My son actually just got a call from a team that was one of those that he would definitely have to wait his turn but I really think he is deciding against that level. We will see. That 4:18 is definitely his goal!!!</p>
<p>@swimdogmom Very good point about taking notes. We made a folder for each team with two sets of questions. One that was good for the first couple calls and one for later calls. My son said he could remember but I told him that it is better to be safe than sorry. Problem is that he is not always home when they call. I try to convince him to have the folders in his car but he didn’t want his buddies to see them. I guess I understand that too. </p>
<p>Ok funny thing happened today…I think because of this thread, I have been promoted to a “senior member” at CC - ha!</p>
<p>Hi all…been away for a few days visiting my parents and have been out of the recruiting loop! Great to hear all the progress that is being made. Any new OV offers? Any new calls? I love hearing about what is happening with everyone!</p>
<p>My S and I had lunch today with a friend whose older son is going to be a freshman at a top-ranked school this year (he is nationally ranked pretty high) and her younger son is talking to many D1 schools for next year. She is a great resource for both of us. Her best advice for my S was that everyone has a different recruiting process and different goals. He was a little embarrassed that he isn’t being recruited by top D1 schools as her S is, but she was insistent that he is highly valued by those schools who are recruiting him. She said multiple times that he needs to focus on the fact that he is talking to some top-notch academic schools (her S is not academic at all - he is going to college to swim whereas my son is swimming while he is in college. Hope that makes sense). I have been trying to tell him this for weeks, but sometimes it takes someone outside of the family for them to be able to acknowledge it. </p>
<p>Her other advice that is worth sharing: 1. Be answering every call and every email ASAP. 2. Even if you are not getting calls from the schools you are interested in, be proactive and call coaches of teams that you are interested in - make THEM say they don’t want you before you assume they don’t want you. You never know their situation or their recruiting status, so you can’t assume anything until they tell you for sure. You may just need to get your name in front of them - they may just not know who you are yet. 3. It is still very early in the recruiting process, so keep all options open at this point. You never know who may call in the next half hour or tomorrow or next week. Try not to say no to anyone yet unless you are 100% sure (for whatever reason) that you aren’t interested in their program. 4. Before you start accepting official visits, start talking money with the coaches - get a feel for what they may be offering you financially if that is what you are looking for in a program (for some it doesn’t matter, but for others, it is really important). If it is D3 that you are looking at, ask what it will take to get academic money. 5. Know that coaches will not start making final decisions on their recruiting classes until after all of their OVs are over (some go all the way through early November). Don’t worry that they will run out of spots before you get there. </p>
<p>I hope all this is helpful information for all of you. I found it very useful, and seems to mirror much of what I am hearing from other sources. </p>
<p>Have a great night!</p>
<p>@lovemyswimmer. Thanks so much for your post. My son has been responding immediately but he sure seems to be playing a lot of phone tag with the coaches and isn’t sure if he should try them a second time if they don’t call back in 48 hours? We think he should but not sure. My son has swim champs ( local champs before nationals) this whole weekend so he isn’t available. Having to swim long races not being rested! Taper starts Monday. </p>
<p>@ahsmuoh: I think if it’s been 2-3 days then, yes, I would have him call back. You just don’t know what is happening in their lives at the moment–in recruiting or in their personal lives. My thoughts are they are so busy right now with trying to talk to all of their potential recruits that are playing phone tag with many students, not just your son. </p>
<p>Yay for taper! We love taper! 
</p>
<p>Good luck to him this weekend!</p>
<p>Just checking back in. My son survived his championship meet. 7 new kids on his team got national cuts (YMCA) so his team will take 29 kids to nationals! They hope to be in the top 5 in the country. Should be exciting. My son continues to talk to some coaches. He did call back some coaches that he hadn’t heard from for 48 hours and they have connected now. He got his first OV offer today so that is a relief. How is everyone else doing? </p>
<p>@ahsmuoh That’s great news for him (and the rest of his team!). Congratulations! And wow - 29 swimmers! Keep us posted! </p>
<p>My S is at Western Sectionals right now and is having a great meet so far. Taper, shave, good health and sea level help tremendously! I wish I was there. </p>
<p>He has received OVs from 8 schools! He’s pretty happy with the offers, but he hasn’t accepted any yet. He has turned down a few others that he knows don’t have engineering. I still think he is waiting for a couple more schools that he is really interested in to see if they contact him here in the next couple of weeks. In the meantime, he definitely has some research to do to see which ones he wants to visit…and we need to figure out if he can get into any of these schools! We feel very lucky that he will likely have choices. </p>
<p>Does anyone know the rate of actual offers that come from OVs? I know that not every coach will offer a spot…</p>
<p>Anyone else have any updates? </p>
<p>@Lovemyswimmer Wow, 8 OV offers - that is great! We were happy with the one yesterday. I really think my son is on the “b” list of some of his schools and they are continuing calling him but waiting on their A list first. He has been told by two other schools that “they want him to visit” but haven’t given him any specific dates. </p>
<p>I really hope his taper meet (y nats) is as good as your sons! I am getting a bit nervous because I think if it goes well he will move up some of the lists but if not we may have to go plan B. He has two schools that we believe he is on the A list and three “reaches”. We will see. What events does your son swim? Mine is a mid distance/distance freestyler and butterfly. Although at Y nats each kid can only swim 4 individual events so he doesn’t get to swim fly much tapered. Usually does the 200/400/800/1500. </p>
<p>@Lovemyswimmer: if your kid is getting OVs from schools, s/he will get an offer. Whether that offer comes with money or guaranteed acceptance is another matter. Hopefully the school has done a pre-read on transcripts/SAT/ACT scores and knows that your kid is a likely admit - definitely problematic if not. And hopefully your kid has broached the subject of possible swim scholarships with these schools (?).
It costs these schools money to OV a kid so they are definitely interested if they are making the offer (assuming D1 or D2 here). Sounds like your kid may be in the driver seat here a bit and can be choosy with 5 OVs permitted per NCAA regulations. Unless this group includes where s/he really wants to go, I would not burn up all your OVs at this point - Good Luck!</p>
<p>Hey all, really appreciate reading the updates. So many of the comments mirror our experiences. Our son has a couple of OV’s with DIII’s scheduled (old news). He’s excited about both of them (as are we). He’s also in conversation with one D1 school in particular to which he’s really hoping to be invited for an OV. The coach of another D1 saw him at a meet and invited him to an OV (Not sure he’s interested – But it’s hard to tell, because as great a kid as I think he is, our son can be a little closed in his communication to us about what he’s really thinking…).</p>
<p>It’s so funny how my thoughts on this process bounce around, day by day, even hour by hour. One minute I’m thinking that he should start cutting down his list, but the next minute when he did turn down an OV offer to a fantastic school, I felt queasy about it even though we all know the school itself isn’t the right fit for him (team and coach are great). On the other hand, there are a couple of last schools he wants to visit, and I’m not thrilled about adding more possibilites to the list either (would really like to keep things to no more than 4 OV’s). But when he outlined his reasons for wanting to visit those schools specifically, they made a lot of sense. So off we will go then. </p>
<p>Bottom line is I apparently don’t love it when he removes possibilites, nor do I love it when he adds more possibilites. Perhaps it’s the dad that is insane here…kid seems to be alright though.</p>
<p>@Lovemyswimmer, @shsmuoh, and the others, congratulations on both your son’s exciting progress! </p>