Junior Schedule

Parent Cafe
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Another issue: For some highly competitive schools, leadership positions or significant achievements in extracurricular activities are important.

Such things are likely to occur in 11th grade. By that point, the student who has been participating in a competitive activity may be ready to compete at the state or national level. The student who has been a member of an organization may be ready to play a leadership role in the organization. 11th grade may actually be more important than 12th because 12th grade achievements may occur too late in the year to be included in a college application.

If a student deemphasizes ECs in 11th grade in favor of an excessively demanding courseload, it could backfire.

And on another topic: I’m finding it really, really hard to understand how the University of Chicago and Columbia, in particular, got relegated to the B list and Williams and Duke to the C list. Does the OP not understand the extraordinary reputations of these schools?

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The extraordinary reputation of ALL of these schools, Marian. They are all virtually indistinguishable from one another.

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I can’t figure out the rationale for picking any of these schools - other than we’ve heard of them. Sizes from 2000 to 40,000. Party hard play hard schools to fun goes to die schools. Core curriculum to open curriculum. Urban to rural. I just don’t get it.

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Oh, I can get the collection of schools - they are all fine schools and some people just don’t care all that much about urban vs rural, etc. I just don’t get the arbitrary division into Plan A worth paying for and Plan B and C not worth paying for.

And either way, they are basically all reaches for EVERYBODY, including the OP’s son. So with a list like that, it is very possible that even a student “with all the goods” won’t get in any of them, and then what?

Where is the exploration of matches and safeties?

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Also, academic purist (e.g. Chicago, Middlebury) versus pre-professional (e.g. Penn, CMC) reputations.

But it looks like the rationale is admission-selectivity-based prestige.

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MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Let’s spend less time psychoanalyzing the OP and guessing why s/he categorizes things the way s/he does, please. The OP is here and answering your questions.

107

Wow! I’m feeling overwhelmed. There is so much that we don’t know. Let me add some details so our experienced and knowledgeable posters can rearrange my list in a more realistic manner.

We are Asian, affluent enough to be disqualified for any financial aid, not wealthy enough to not care about merit money yet ready to make sacrifices if he gets into a prestigious/highly selective school.

We know that there are so many other non hyper selective yet fantastic schools but most of us would cost the same without giving similar brand/elite alumni network edge. We may pay for those but would expect some scholarship as we don’t see those as best value at full cost. If he can’t get any scholarships there then we go towards our flagship or state/private schools that offer full rides to all eligible candidates. One example is UTD.

He is an excellent student who is a natural test taker. He scored 1510 on practice PSAT and 1500 on SAT without any preparation. His grades are always 95+ and mostly 99’s. He took 3 AP tests and scored 5’s on all. He is AP scholar and will be National Scholar this year.

He is youth director at two good sized volunteer organizations. He is president of Spanish Club and won some state awards, member of Honors Society and did band for many years but now more interested in musical theater. He directs plays for a local theater company. He is involved with the city and community in social and environmental endeavors . He does recreational swimming and soccer. He is involved with a local radio program. I know it’s not a lot and he is not focused on awards but he’ll continue everything but band.

He is not sure about his major but he is interested in humanities, politics, business and engineering. He’ll go undecided.

He is taking Calculus and AP Chem this year and did honors Chem and bio. He may take physics next year.

Which schools do you suggest and how can he improve his chances to get accepted in ones he prefer?

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I’m wondering about the one size fits all application strategy. If the OP has an early admit or autoadmit to a good state flagship, and knows that it will be affordable without any scholarships, how many additional safeties do you feel the OP needs? Is 0 not a valid answer? Must the OP have 2 safeties, 3 matches, and 3 reaches, or whatever your favorite numbers are?

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@WorryHurry411

Going back to your original question, based on everything you explained so far, while I don’t know if 6 AP’s are a good idea or why would you want it, I don’t think 6 AP’s while preparing for additional standardized test would be too much for your son. He may well find some time to read some novels, spend time with family and friend and do enough exercise too.

Apples and pears. But during last year, 13 yo my homeschooling daughter completed 9 courses 32 community college units 5 courses with lab, studied for SSAT test and took it, applied to a dozen boarding schools with visiting them, writing essays, etc, had 4 hours per week rock climbing team practices with joining a few competitions, self-studying geometry and algebra II in addition to college courses, participated local teen’s night hangouts, read dozens of novels outside of classes, visited museums, followed the election, applied to art competitions and juried shows, won regional kids competitions and was selected and exhibited on juried shows for adult artists and was still physically and emotionally fine.

It wasn’t easy. she constantly burned midnight oils, was getting very tired near end of the Spring semester, and even got a B on her Physics (equiv AP Physics 1) But she managed, learned a tone of academic materials, and most importantly, learned endurance and resilience by working real hard, as hard as it takes.

She also learned how to manage schedule, stress, anxiety and mood swings by always squeezing time for for exercise and joining regular teen nights, unless she is not prepared for Physics exam the next day, how to prioritize and where to focus and what to give up, where to let it slip, how to talk to professors and resolve schedule conflict and get special arrangements when needed, how to quantitatively calculating risks (I thought her this skill) and boldly taking them, etc etc.

So do I think your smart, dedicated, hard working rising junior should be allowed to take 6 AP courses that he wants to take? My answer is that only you really know. But my guess is probably yes.

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“We know that there are so many other non hyper selective yet fantastic schools but most of us would cost the same without giving similar brand/elite alumni network edge.”

Thank you for coming back :slight_smile:

What was the criteria you used to draw the distinction between the A’s (worth paying for) and B’s and C’s (that aren’t worth paying for, in your estimation)? Where did you get the notion that HYPS were appreciably more prestigious and/or had appreciably better alumni networks? That may be a common belief in the Asian community, but that doesn’t actually make it grounded in reality.

Regarding alumni networks, don’t make the mistake of thinking that the most highly selective = the best alumni network. I would put USC and Notre Dame’s alumni networks up against any Ivy League school at any time. They have an intense loyalty towards fellow alums that you may or may not find among grads of other schools. And in the US, plenty of colleges have strong alumni networks that may not be all that selective or prestigious at all. You live in Texas, I believe – there’s plenty of A&M loyalty.

Right now, virtually all of the schools you have listed are top 20 (either on the university list or the LAC list).
What do you think would happen if he “only” got into a school that was, say, in the 20 - 40 level? I think, as you are newer to this country, you may not realize that the life of the person who goes to the 20 - 40 level just isn’t all that appreciably different from the life of the person who goes to the 1 - 20 level. Either way, chances are exceedingly high they will have a nice career, get paid well / be comfortable, do intellectually stimulating and rewarding work, and live a nice life.

I think it is really, really important for you to work hard on shaking the notion that the precise college that you go to shapes your life, the way it might have in your home country, and that we are talking shades of gray as we go down the ladder. I think clinging to this notion is causing you to slice things way more thinly than is warranted.

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At UT Austin, engineering majors and business are selective majors, so if he goes in undeclared, he may find it difficult to change into those majors after enrolling. If he applies to one of those majors for frosh admission, be aware that rank-based automatic admission does not apply to admission to the major; it is possible that he could get admitted to the campus through automatic admission, but not to the major (though if his rank is top 1% and his test scores are high, then his chances for admission to a selective major are much better than if his rank is in the lower end of the automatic admission range and/or his test scores are not that good).

Beyond the above consideration, given your price constraints (i.e. apparently not willing to pay more than UT Austin price for any school other than HYPS), it is very difficult to find other more prominent (than UT Austin) private or out-of-state public schools that are any easier to get the needed merit scholarships than admission to HYPS is.

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We are willing to pay around $30k for good schools that aren’t his first choice but he’ll have to get some scholarship.

His rank is not going to be below 0.5% and that’s a big and hyper competitive school of Texas so state schools know their reputation.

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" We may pay for those but would expect some scholarship as we don’t see those as best value at full cost. "
THAT is your problem. You view too many GREAT colleges as being “worth less” to you because of your prestige driven mind set calculations. There are TENS OF THOUSANDS of families, with kids as smart as yours, who would be ECSTATIC to have their kids accepted and pay for them to get an education at the colleges you are turning you nose up at as being less of a “value” - Chicago, Duke, Williams, etc.

Where your DS goes to college is FAR less important to his future than you THINK it is.

You need to wake up, and fast, and realize

1- the chances of your DS being REJECTED at HYPS are the same as they are for all applicants - 90-95 % chance .

2- IF you want merit $$, your son will have to apply to FAR less “prestigious” colleges.

I could not agree more with what Pizzagirl wrote-
“I think it is really, really important for you to work hard on shaking the notion that the precise college that you go to shapes your life, the way it might have in your home country, and that we are talking shades of gray as we go down the ladder. I think clinging to this notion is causing you to slice things way more thinly than is warranted.”

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“His rank is not going to be below 0.5%”
thats fine for colleges that care about rank.
But 40+% of the students who apply to top tier colleges such as HYPS come from schools that dont rank.

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Also, if he is considering engineering, it is more important to take physics so that he can check how he likes that subject, since engineering makes heavy use of physics.

Also, many of your listed schools do not have engineering and/or business.

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"We are willing to pay around $30k for good schools that aren’t his first choice but he’ll have to get some scholarship.
MOST colleges on your offer very few merit scholarships $$ to non athletes. They DO offer Financial aid, often with grants that dont have to be paid back.
Have you run NPC’s on all the colleges on your current list?

117

“We are willing to pay around $30k for good schools that aren’t his first choice but he’ll have to get some scholarship.”

But the only reason they aren’t his first choice is that someone put into his head that HYPS were some sort of elevated dream school and everything else is vastly inferior! Who put that in his head? Your community of origin? Your extended family? Your community where you now live?

Why do you persist in holding to this belief when a) it is not grounded in reality and b) puts massive pressure on your son because that’s all you will fund?

There are two lessons that are really important here:

A) Your plan B and C schools are just as good as plan A. If you can pay $60k for plan A, there is no justification for not paying that for B or C schools. None. There is no planet where it makes sense to pay for Harvard but not Duke. None. I don’t care how many people back in Asia think that the moon revolves around Harvard. They are simply incorrect.

B) there are dozens of schools that are a SLIGHT tier down that still offer excellent education that he should investigate. Where is your exploration of Brandeis, Tulane, Reed, Davidson, etc? Why is he not looking at colleges that are specifically seeking out increases in their Asian populations? He needs matches.

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If he’s interested in engineering, he will generally have to apply directly to engineering programs and take a fairly prescribed schedule freshman year. I’m not seeing anything in his activities or course choices that suggest he has any real interest. Tinkering, robotics, Science Olympiad, computer programming in his spare time. That sort of stuff. I’m also not seeing the sorts of activities that would constitute the “and” that the top schools are looking for in addition to great grades and scores. Did you read the thread http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1797102-elite-admissions-finding-the-and-p1.html ? That said, sometimes it’s not so much what you did, as how you present it. You can be President of a Spanish Club that doesn’t do much of anything, or one that has real accomplishments that you were a major part of perhaps even spear led.

119

OP- big hug. I know you posted what seemed like an innocuous question and are now getting a barrage of information.

So let’s break it down.

First- finances. The most important. Run the NPC’s for a wide range of college so you get a feel for costs- your son may or may not get into Princeton- but if you really and truly cannot afford the number that gets spit out (and Princeton has among the best financial aid in the country) you’re going to need to retool before having a serious college financing discussion with your kid. Look at the generous merit schools (not talking Chicago or Wash U here- although there is some merit at those schools, it is so difficult to get that you really can’t count on it as a strategy). Take a look at the number THEY spit out- if in your head, your son is getting a 35K merit award from a “lesser” school, but reality is he’s getting a 5-10K award which makes that school totally out of range- figure that out now.

Second- desirability. I totally understand your point that while you might stretch for Princeton, you wouldn’t for Lehigh. I get it. My own kids came home from their first college counselor meetings with a list of schools which I knocked off- for my engineering wannabee kid, I was happy to stretch for MIT but would not do so for a bunch of the private universities the GC suggested. Our own flagship has an OK engineering school, but there are a few flagships in neighboring states with really strong programs- and I wasn’t going to pay top dollar if he could have gone for far less somewhere else with an equally good program. And so it went with the other kids as well.

BUT- here’s the rub- you need to do your research before you have that list of “not paying for this school”. A person living in Missouri who has M&T as a safety/match- yup, I understand they aren’t going to pay for their kid to be full pay at BU. BU has a fine program- but M&T’s is better no matter what the rankings say. Employers say it. Take a look at which recruiters shlep out to Rolla, MO which is NOT a convenient trip! So do your research.

Third- your son. You need to start communicating TODAY, regardless of how long it takes you to get through steps one and two, that your pride in him is absolute (barring any felony convictions or ethical lapses) and is not contingent on where he goes to college. Your financial resources may have limitations, but your pride is boundless. Start delivering that message daily. Otherwise, he’s going to be one of those kids heading off to Cornell or U Chicago feeling like he let down his entire family (how absurd is that).

We can all help you with the mechanics of the list- but you need to do a deep dive on your finances NOW. It’s one thing to be off by 3K if you have home equity, great credit, fully paid up life insurance, and other financial resources. But most parents who post here in a blind panic senior year do so because they are off by 20K or some huge number (times four years…) and assumed that they’d “find” the money if the kid got into the lottery school, only to discover that there isn’t that kind of money to find.

I can cut my cable bill, stop eating out, and use my bike for local errands to save on gas. That nets me 2.5K a year, not 20K. Many people overestimate what they could save by “cutting back”.

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We saved money that he’ll inheret and we are willing to give it to him for a college that would change his financial/social class but if it’s $60k/year at BU or NYU, we would rather have him go to UT Austin and buy a house.