It really doesn’t matter if it was 20 students or 200 at the protest. It was the actions of Oberlin, its Deans, and other support for the disruption of Gibson’s business that mattered. The interference with the bakery order, the request that Gibson’s drop the charges against the 3 students (and future instances), the handing out of literature printed by the university. Oberlin supported the students and said the students are Oberlin and we support their actions on and off campus. One Dean was at the scene immediately demanding information about the arrests. That dean wasn’t a lawyer so why start demanding info about an incident that didn’t involve Oberlin?
I’m reading through the FAQs by the Oberlin administration that another poster referenced earlier.
As one might expect, it’s very one-sided and skips over a lot of the testimony that the jury decided was, in fact, libel. I don’t think it helps matters much to put this out after such a convincing verdict/judgment for the Gibsons.
https://www.oberlin.edu/sites/default/files/content/office/general-counsel/current-issues/faqs.pdf
More video of the protest. Students got very upset at a journalist covering the event because he was photographing them. They refused to answer his questions about why they were protesting. There appeared to be a lot of heat but not a lot of light. I can see how reining in all that emotion would have been difficult. I still believe Oberlin’s had an obligation to at least make an honest attempt to do so.
http://www.chroniclet.com/Local-News/2016/11/10/LIVE-VIDEO-Protests-at-Gibson-s-in-Oberlin.html
Written by David Gibson–“We weren’t going to allow our reputations to be tarnished by lies.”
So Oberlin admits that it was officially part of the protest through its representative, Meredith Raimondo?
I think it is a BAD official policy to require that a babysitter accompany a group of students on all protests. Sure, have someone at on campus protests, but once the school is officially represented off campus, it becomes a school action (and look, it cost $44M). If these students had traveled to the state capitol to protest on the steps, would a representative have gone along? How many students make it an official protest? Why should the school care if 15 of its students went to Columbus to protest some state action, went to a power plant to protest nukes, to Walmart? What difference did it make that the protest took place down the street or across the state? It was off campus and the school should have stayed out of it if it did not want it to be an official school event. Are they really going to send an official representative to ‘ensure the student demonstrations are safe and lawful’ to every protest a student is involved in? What are they going to do if the demonstration becomes unsafe and unlawful? Will the dean have the authority to stop the demonstration? To fix an unsafe situation? To do anything AT ALL?
I really think the general counsel is making a big mistake by sending out letters about the case to alum and publishing these Q&As.
So if a security guard at a score yells out shoplifter and grabs someone and he and 2 friends beat up the security guard, is the security guard going to be arrested or will the three people beating him up be arrested for attempted robbery? A family member at a small store has the same right as a security guard.
That Oberlin is still implying that the police were wrong for not arresting the cashier is an indication of what offended the jury and led to the large award.
@gonzaga35 at #316 not sure who you’ve confused me with. Complaining about lack of postings on social media? Are you referring to my question about whether the students exhibited some independent thought about this case? I’m guessing that quite a few, in fact, did “postings on social media.” The question is whether they discussed or debated the case substantively - or was there no need to because those with an opinion happened to agree with the protesters? No doubt many were very busy but - as mentioned before - this isn’t a small case. Students (yes, even those in lab coats) will likely have some opinions on it, given the ramifications for respecting diversity, freedom of speech, college vs. town attitudes, and so forth. What were those opinions? Both you and @quietdesperation seem to be painting a picture of 120 or so protestors and nothing but crickets from all other corners. Somehow I don’t think that describes the student body at Oberlin accurately - or fairly.
Re #322, the second video of the student protest is truly disturbing. It shows among other things that the students:
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do not understand the most basic facts about the role and functioning of a free press in a democracy. The students become visibly agitated to the point of interfering with a journalist who is forced to calmly remind them that they’re staging a public protest and that he as a journalist has a professional obligation to cover the protest, including filming the protesters;
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lack any sense of conviction or moral courage. The students en masse, like lemmings, turn their backs on the journalist so that they can avoid being photographed;
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lack even basic common sense: they turn their backs to hide their faces AFTER most of them have already made themselves easily identifiable to anyone watching the video;
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are crude and nasty. They raise their middle finger to the journalist - again, en masse, lemming-like - and several try to physically prevent him from filming;
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are eager to personally smear Allyn Gibson as a racist, with printed signs stating exactly that.
In sum, at least a few hundred Oberlin students are completely ignorant of our basic constitutional rights, have no understanding of concepts of moral courage, are stupid as posts and as thuggish and bullying as Meredith Raimondo.
Also: We’re told that the whining young perp whose attempted theft triggered all this malignant nonsense is a graduate of Phillips Andover. Unbelievable.
What is wrong with our society that our elite institutions produce such mentally and morally deficient specimens?
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@twoinanddone at #324 - what struck me is that they have to have a policy on “protests.” Who was saying that the student body doesn’t spend all their “woke” time protesting? Handbook suggests differently.
So the students wanted to protest but didn’t want the protest filmed, weren’t doing anything wrong but didn’t want the press to photograph them? IDK, but isn’t the POINT of a protest to bring attention to the issues, to get all the free press coverage they can? Don’t they want the media there to show how right they are and how wrong the bad guys are? Aren’t they supposed to have leaders who get interviewed by the press to get the issues out there?
If they weren’t trying to draw attention to the protest, why were they beating drums and using a bullhorn?
I can speculate on what happened with the press: Students have been unhappy with what they view as unfair and unbalanced press coverage. Sound familiar?
Oberlin has to send out these e-mails and continue with it’s “messaging”. It is concerned with alumni fundraising and student recruitment. Some (many? we’ll find out) alumni will not want to donate, if they think the money is going to the Gibsons and not the school. It needs to reassure potential donors.
Also, it needs to convince potential students (and their parents that can afford the school’s tuition) that Oberlin is “Ok”, it’s in control, it’s still on mission. It’s progressive mission is a key marketing tool.
Oberlin doesn’t need students, it needs students that can pay close to the full tuition rate. Look at the recent news stories about the schools plan to reduce enrollment at the conservatory and increasing it by the same amount in it’s liberal arts program. It’s doing this because liberal arts students tend to pay a higher rate tuition rate than the conservatory students.
Oberlin doesn’t have any choice, at this point, it has to protect it’s brand. Even if it settles the case, it has to be seen as defending it’s progressive principles.
Here’s a reminder (from December 2017) of how lower than expect enrollment can impact the college.
Several days ago I mentioned Oberlin’s annual financial report, which contains a section on legal liabilities. Their fiscal year ends on June 30, and the one for the year ending June 30, 2018 said they expected no significant legal liabilities.
Oberlin will soon start working on the one for the fiscal year that ends on June 30, 2019. I expect that their accountants will demand a fair estimate of the legal liabilities and a brief discussion. It is one thing to try and posture to the public, and an entirely different thing to materially misrepresent values on a financial report.
Can we please not turn this into yet another “snowflake” bashing thread?
Interesting that the Oberlin FAQ’a say that the protest was 150-200 students. A journalist filming the protest estimated while on camera that the protest included 400-500.
Re #331 - “I can speculate on what happened with the press: Students have been unhappy with what they view as unfair and unbalanced press coverage.”
With all due respect I don’t understand your logic.
How is being filmed creating “unfair or unbalanced coverage”?
Do you mean the students had a reasonable fear that the videographer would … what, doctor the video? Really?
You seem to be making an elliptical dig at Fox News and right-wing complaints about the media, but I don’t see how our CC discussion is in any way a political dispute. (I’m not a Fox fan, btw).
As noted above, why would ANY protester of any stripe want less publicity and less awareness for his protest?
The only possible conclusions are that these students either aren’t very bright or else have the kind of shallow intelligence that is bereft of common sense.
Agree that the # of protesters filmed is very likely in the several hundreds.
If so, then it’s more accurate to say that the percentage of non-conservatory Oberlin students who protested is in the double digits. More like one out of six or seven.
" do you really believe the protest was around the right to steal from local merchants? "
Go back and read the December 2017 Oberlin Grape article presented in #204. Also, the administration did not want first-time thieves to be arrested. Clearly the administration tolerated or indulged stealing from local merchants.
If they were “protesting” but didn’t want press coverage, doesn’t that only strengthen the Gibson’s complaint that there was a deliberate effort to harm their business? Speculating on students thinking they get “unfair and unbalanced press coverage” seems a tad weak. And anyway, they could always have composed a well-articulated letter to the press laying out their views. Perhaps they did. Even before they had all those intelligent discussions about the merits of the case.
From
The code:
grants jurisdiction over students within the City of Oberlin
adopts local, state & federal law by reference
prohibits theft, assault, unlawful blockage of egress & ingress & perjury
outlines procedures for complaints, their adjudication and sentences
Digging the hole every deeper:
https://www.npr.org/2019/06/22/735005809/oberlin-college-president-on-bakery-case