Just a list

<p>But every time one of us newbies asks for advice on a type of school or schools in a region and some very well meaning and highly informed person like yourself gives an answer, does that answer like the list not omit many schools or other information?</p>

<p>IF we really are only going to post information that is perfect and answers every aspect of a question with the complete information available anywhere in the world we will not have many posts here.</p>

<p>It did not have all the schools, my question is so what? It is an older list, so what? It had some odd ommisions, so what?</p>

<p>What might have been said, that list is a decent start, can we add these schools to make it better? Can we note behind that school that it only offers this? Maybe newbies like myself should stick to reading and asking questions.</p>

<p>“It did not have all the schools, my question is so what? It is an older list, so what? It had some odd ommisions, so what”</p>

<p>We all had questions on your seemingly arbitrary list. SO WHAT?</p>

<p>take a deep breath and don’t take comments so personally</p>

<p>I dunno. I do have mixed feelings. </p>

<p>It is a place to start, particularly as a place to view a wide range of schools, both public and private in a fairly easy to pinpoint geographic distribution. </p>

<p>It may also help some in finding a casual or participatory only program.</p>

<p>Might help someone in the initial stages of investigation, or as a basic starting point. On the other hand, it does nothing in differentiating the type of program, conservatory versus LAC, audition based versus stats/audition weighted versus no real criteria.</p>

<p>There have been a few “where do I (start) to look” threads. Typically the response to those types of questions is a request for other info regarding a posters parameters. There is a broad range of knowledge here, and I think that most answer reflectively, and try to provide a range of options. There may well be a few hidden gems in there musically or faculty wise, or aid wise. It may help the student differentiate between Podunk U and Podunk State College. </p>

<p>It’s not going to reveal the equivalent of Juilliard, or NEC, or Peabody or Colburn. It might not help a student deciding betwixt Oberlin or Indiana. It might well reveal the best spot for a particular student, provided they know what to look for or the questions to ask. </p>

<p>Used in conjunction with the wealth of knowledge on this board, beginning here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/258796-so-you-want-music-major-one-familys-experience.html&lt;/a&gt; and within the stickies and featured discussions, the collective “we” can answer a lot of questions on board and privately. The performing arts guides, the scholastic info resources all serve a purpose. The published sources miss a few as well. They “ain’t poifect neither”. Not every student has the resources and support most of our “kids” have enjoyed. A few kids are on their own. A good many of us were “clueless newbies”.</p>

<p>It’s up to the student/parents combo to gather info and to perform due diligence. We can only suggest or point, and offer opinion.</p>

<p>I had no idea Ali Akbar College of Music existed. At least one spot to point someone to. </p>

<p>If this list in conjunction with other info helps a student find some choices, then the purpose is well served. </p>

<p>Now if some one wants to “rank them”, then there might be some severe discussion. In that case, it the thread oughta be locked. ;)</p>

<p>Ok, off the soapbox. Back to being the librarian.</p>

<p>I have no idea why people keep thinking it was personal.</p>

<p>Or want to make it an emotional issue.</p>

<p>I put a poor label on a list and it drew some very strange and some illogical replies. I do not see a personal or emotional issue.</p>

<p>I trust in the wisdom of the “elders” of the forum. They decided the list was a bad idea, so be gone with it. Yet some of you continue with the emotional reactions, very strange.</p>

<p>And by “elders” I mean more knowledgeable not older.</p>

<p>Why in re-reading my post do I feel like Spock wrote it to some earthlings?</p>

<p>Sorry to be all logical. One of my many flaws.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Could be worse - could be Klingons.</p>

<p>^ in that case, beam me up Scotty.</p>

<p>In reading this, I’m reminded of the Parent Cafe. And I avoid that as much as possible.</p>

<p>I hope we don’t start stooping to that level.</p>

<p>I think we’ve flogged this horse long enough!
Amen.</p>

<p>I am not writing to flog a horse or criticize the list, but I do have a few comments. </p>

<p>Mamenyu, I was interested in something you wrote: “just about every college does have some kind of music program, and to look at their websites, they are quite proud of them. That doesn’t mean that someone who wants to be a performer or future grad student in music should go just anywhere…in that sense, the list can be unhelpful.” </p>

<p>I agree that prospective music majors who are serious about wanting to be professional performers and/or go on to graduate school in music should learn a lot about the music programs before deciding where to apply. It takes a lot of research and travel in many cases to understand the nuances of different schools and programs, etc. And the student needs to learn these things in time to be able to learn the audition repertoire in time, and in some cases prepare a prescreening dvd or cd months earlier than the dates of actual auditions. And of course they need to be at a level of training to be competitive for admission. </p>

<p>But when I looked at that list, I was reminded that the majority of students majoring in music in this country are not attending the schools most often recommended for those intending to go into graduate school in music studies or have a career as a performer. </p>

<p>I have noticed that when high school students post here to ask for college suggestions, there is generally a flurry of responses that focus on the most competitive conservatories and music schools before there is information on the student’s level of musical training. This seems to happen even when the schools the student has listed as being under consideration are mostly of the unknown/not-well-known category. </p>

<p>So while it is true that students who want to have careers as performers or music scholars should probably consider a much smaller list of schools, I think it would be a good idea to remember that the majority of students who major in music attend programs that are not competitive and probably do not have the resources/opportunities of the higher ranked music schools. I also think it is important that a student’s aspirations and level of training/experience be considered before suggestions of schools are made. </p>

<p>For example, if a student writes about being interested in majoring in music at a school in California, which must have dozens of schools with music departments, I don’t think it is helpful to suggest Colburn without more information. This is no different than if I said my child wanted to major in Economics, History, etc, and someone responded with “what about Harvard?” Of course no one would do that without finding out about my child’s academic background, scores, etc. I think that among those who post on this site frequently, many have family members with serious music backgrounds, contributing to a bias toward mentioning top schools. But I also think that some people who are serious about music may have a reluctance to recommend an undistinguished/unknown program even if the student is not competitive for a higher-tier music program. Some people might question the choice of majoring in music in such cases. </p>

<p>It is important for prospective music students to know about the differences in the programs in terms of their career goals and their level of training/music talent/potential as well as other factors. But “the list” is a reminder to me that for better or worse, there are a lot of college students majoring in music in schools other than the ones typically mentioned on this site and even ones mentioned in those “guide books” to about performing arts majors. The way it would be “for worse” is if the student attending a very weak program had a false impression about their potential for a music career. Most people who major in music do not go on to graduate study in music or careers as musicians, so for those people it may not matter so much.</p>

<p>I don’t find laundry lists helpful, for the same reason why I would throw up my hands if I were trying to advise a kid who has no idea why they want to go to college. You have to have a few “bouncing off” points for yourself and for advisors. Otherwise, the college search will be terribly inefficient. </p>

<p>What program is where should not be the starting point for any college search. More time should be spent analyzing and finetuning an individual’s list of abilities, goals, limits. Then you’re in a position to come up with an initial “long list” of possibilities. Then keep researching and start visiting, and that will further guide you. </p>

<p>FWIW, when I started the initial research process on my daughter’s behalf, I came up with a long list of about 15 schools. This was two years ago. Now that she is a HS senior, we have a short list of 5 schools – NONE of which were on that initial long list. And NONE of the initial long list made it onto the short list! </p>

<p>There are so many criteria that go into a search – the most indepth work should be in determining what a student wants/needs, so you can pick a program that moves them forward.</p>

<p>That’s true; music is a college major among many college majors offered at most colleges, in all the “tiers” of colleges, and students may just want to spend 4 years doing it and then go on with their lives. On this forum, though, I think many continuing posters are looking for more specialized information that is not as readily accessible and can benefit from the particular experiences of some of the longtime posters who have been through what can be a tough application process, with some surprises for the unwary. To that extent, Bassdad’s contribution has been an enormous help to many; the list of summer festivals started by Cosmos is also very helpful. Would that more students posted here with that kind of information! In any event, most here try to speak about what they know, and there have been many longtime posters with students who have looked for and now attend less prominent music programs, and they have been helpful to those looking for such programs. It is good for music aspirants to know, though, that the stakes are high for those who do plan to continue, and for them, going to one of the more competitive programs will probably be an advantage. Unlike other majors, where if you do very well at just about any decent school, you have a chance of getting into graduate school, music performance success going forward also depends on connections you make with teachers and other students, which you can’t get at just about any decent school. And graduate school in music is also very competitive: each year there are about 15 or so really competitive applicants for the handful of top programs (each of which takes 1-2 students per year), from which it is reasonably possible to get a job after the PhD.</p>

<p>These are of course, individual decisions, but it is important to understand that Schools of Music vary as much as the 3000 other colleges in the US. Just because a school has a “School of Music” does not mean that it has high caliber students, good quality ensembles, etc., no matter how well intentioned and dedicated the faculty may be. I met a terrific working musician/director of a lesser known college jazz program at a master class a few years back, who expressed disappointment that his students were not near of the caliber of many of the high school students with whom he was working that day.</p>

<p>Now, of course, some of these programs may be “just right” for certain students, and there are a lot of additional variables, as Rigaudon mentions, including finances and talent. It is important not to be lulled into thinking however, that there isn’t tremendous variability between and among all of these programs.</p>

<p>I think “The List” is helpful. I always look for a starting point, and that is what brought me to CC six years ago…a list.<br>
In our d’s case, what we have learned is that the final decision came down to the teacher/studio. She auditioned to several schools, recieved several acceptances (not all were listed on CC…there are reasons) but in the end she went first of all with the teacher then with the school’s music program. She loves where she is, a perfect fit. If you would have asked me two years ago where she would be…sadly this school would not have been mentioned! You can start with a list, but there is so much more to look into.</p>