<p>I accept that this is a valid concern to the DOL and WHD. Done. But, they allow for a probable exception for non-profits-- and this experience may be valuable to a student.
*Unpaid internships in the public sector and for non-profit charitable organizations, where the intern volunteers without expectation of compensation, are generally permissible. *</p>
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<p>The way for employers to get around not paying a working intern is by offering them course credit through a college. D will be doing one of these this semester in her field and fortunately they are only giving her one credit for it, as I would feel that it would be a rip off if I had to pay more tuition for her to just work for somebody else. I’d rather be paying tuition for courses she is actually taking at the school. The internship, however, will be good experience, hopefully, and good on her resume.</p>
<p>The only reason an internship is now “valuable” is the fact that one can no longer find a job, seemingly, without at least two. Most internships (especially at big companies/organizations, such as museums) teach you little about the actual field you are interested in, instead using interns to fill out spreadsheets and make photocopies. You may be thrown the occasional bone and asked to help “research” something.</p>
<p>There’s definitely a lot to be learned from internships, but you have to consider that 20 years ago there were no internships; today’s “internship” was yesterday’s entry level position, one for which you got paid more than any job a highly qualified college graduate can attain these days. Not to mention pressure to intern takes valuable time away from a student’s actual studies. This system, of course, is also incredibly biased against those whose parents have limited funds and therefore cannot afford to work two or more days per week for no pay.</p>
<p>And yes, I did one internship in college and it really sapped my funds; I spent the rest of my college career working a demanding paid work-study job that taught me much more than most internships would, but it is taken less seriously by many prospective employers. I’m now a college grad, finding no work beyond coffee shop jobs, and have to consider once again taking an unpaid position in order to boost my resume. All in all, this system is clearly exploitative, and no, it does not benefit students AT ALL.</p>
<p>I don’t have expertise to render a legal opinion, but looking at the ethical side, it appears an objection to unpaid internship is that the student is being exploited. Needless to say the lawmakers exempted themselves as they often do; why is someone who is shuffling papers for a congressman instead of a paid employee not exploited compared to the kid who sets up the OR table in a vet hospital? This differentiation between profits and non-profits is, to me, quite fake in this view. Is there really any difference of consequence to the student if he interns for say a Blue Cross/BS carrier in one state that’s for profit versus another that non-profit?</p>
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Legally, you may very well be right. And if the apprentice generates x dollars while costing the employer less than x dollars, you’re on to something. But there are cases where the productive worker has to slow down so much to explain, and the student, even though, he’s doing something that’s work, is costing more because the person who would have done it is standing by monitoring him and spending even more time.</p>
<p>If the employer has a reasonable expectation that the student will join them in the future, there may be an incentive for the loss leader, but if it’s just to provide a service that the student wants - experience - and be forced to pay for it with lost productivity, it is foolish; I would advocate not calling it an internship but a course offered by the employer to the student where he would get a certificate in return for five bucks.</p>
<p>There were internships 20 years ago. They tended to be in the summer months only and were definitely not as common as today. I did one in the summer of 1979, and the school that arranged them (it was a degree requirement) required that all interns were paid. We graduated from the degree program with on the job experience and a salary history.</p>
<p>I see this issue as the latest stumbling block for the less privileged. If I won the lottery (I’d have to buy a ticket first, so it’s not going to happen) I would start a foundation to fund the same summer and post grad opportunities that the children of the well off enjoy. Then I think that’s not right either. Fairness shouldn’t depend on the largesse of an individual.</p>
<p>Try an unpaid internship for course credit where you HAVE TO PAY FOR THE CREDITS if you want them on your transcript. Ugh. And at D’s state flagship, some come with additional “program” fees. Yep. They are 6 hours of credit for 20 hours of work a week and 6 credits for 40. The U benefits and the business benefits and the student “pays.”</p>
<p>^^^^#26</p>
<p>Many schools have private scholarships, grants and fellowships that pay towards internships that are for credit or not. This is not work-study. My kids have had several of these. One just received a $7500 fellowship for an internship for credit.</p>
<p>These have to be applied for separate from financial aid - usually during the semester or previous semester it is to be used.</p>
<p>parent1986: My school had grants as well. Unfortunately, the deadline to apply for internship grants fell quite long before most internship interviews even occurred, and you couldn’t apply for the grant without knowing where you were interning. Not to mention the application process for this, the internship itself, and the presentations and papers you had to write for the scholarship program take up more time than any school can afford.</p>
<p>What happened to going to college to go to college?</p>
<p>Does “volunteering” only count in non-profits? If not, there’s your out.</p>
<p>My daughter did an internship this summer and got college credit for it. So we had to pay tuition and fees for the three hours credit. It was a good experience and I’m glad she got to do it. But I kind of felt that there should have been some sort of alternative tuition/fees structure as the school did nothing to earn that money (well she did have to do a paper about it which someone had to read).</p>
<p>The law was presumably put into place to protect students from exploitation, but seems to almost backfire when you end up having to pay to do the internship!!</p>
<p>D was sport management major, and it was part of the curriculum to get an internship. Most sport organizations require confirmation that academic credit will be given. In fact there was alot of correspondence and agreement of terms between d’s college and team
before the internship was acceptable to both sides.<br>
For my kid, the experience she gained was invaluable. In fact, it allowed her to get a real job with benefits from another team upon graduation.
In fields like sport management-communications and a few others, it seems almost a necessity to take an unpaid internship for college credit. She certainly learned as much in that semester as an intern as she would have learned in several classroom courses. In fact part of the internship was to be assigned a project and be in charge of organizing a promotional event at the stadium. This was not a job where she answered phones and xeroxed.<br>
–and it’s not just for the “rich kids” who can afford to work without salary. My kid understood the importance of paying her way through school. She gladly worked in the kitchen at her college in order to earn “her keep”. Her campus employment gave her the ability to take the unpaid internship.</p>
<p>Um, in 1987 DH & I both had unpaid internships for the entire spring semester (40 hours/week.) We paid for & received 15 credits. Cost me about $300/month for commuting costs from NJ to NYC. DH was at NBC Sports & was working with associate producers on packages for the next NFL season. I was at Good Morning America and was Joel Siegel’s assistant. This idea that you’re not learning anything about the real field is very far from what DH & I experienced. I think every graduating senior in my dept. had an unpaid internship.</p>
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<p>Not true at all. There’s no loophole as far as I’m aware of that allows companies to skirt the law by offering students college credits for being an intern for free. Even if a company gives out college credit, but derives any benefits whatsoever from that student interning there for free, then that is illegal, college credit or not. They have to pay minimum wage.</p>
<p>GNW- I think this issue has been visited many times before- that is why DOL and Fair labor standards are that specific. That is why my kids school and team had to have a sort of memo of understanding signed by both parties to ensure that the internship followed all the regulations.<br>
now unpaid internships after graduation when the intern does not receive academic credit or monetary compensation may be a whole different area for discussion-- but as long as they receive academic credit and it meets certain criteria, it is ok. At least that’s how it is currently.</p>
<p>BTW- the internship did not bother me at all. I thought it was a fantastic way to gain real life experience. What did bother me was the idea that all these interns made it unnecessary to hire entry level employees. So it wasn’t taking jobs away from current employees- but probably made it more difficult to get an entry level job with the organization.<br>
but it was the very experience that my d gained, which allowed her to find an entry level position with another team.
SO IT ALL EVENS OUT IN THE END ???</p>
<p>I have to say that I am sick and tired of my kids doing unpaid work in for-profit organizations, where they work alongside salaried employees and are expected to show up in suit and tie for a 5 day 40 hour week, pay for their own commuting and parking and buy their own lunch.</p>
<p>My 20 yo was offered yet another one of these gigs – and I’m proud to say he turned them down flat, noted that if they wanted him to work for them, that he needed to be paid because his parents were no longer handing out gas money and lunch money for kids to go to work. He picked up a summer job with a startup instead and actually did make some money. And he can call it an “internship” as if “summer employment” isn’t good enough.</p>
<p>Graven: From the internship web site (linked above) - [Your take is] based on a strict interpretation of “If the employer that provides the training derives no immediate advantage from the activities of the trainees and, on occasion, the employer’s operations are actually impeded.” According to a 2002 decision by the Department of Labor’s Wage and Hour Division, the definition of “no immediate advantage” depends on whether “productive work performed by the mentees would be offset by the burden to the employers (local businesses) from the training and supervision provided.” In other words, the standard of judgment is based on the net gain to the employer. It seems to follow that if a student benefits more from an internship program than his or her employer does, then the intern will not be considered an employee by the Department of Labor. There’s your loophole.</p>
<p>But also, from DOL/WHD 2010:
*In general, the more an internship program is structured around a classroom or academic experience as opposed to the employer’s actual operations, the more likely the internship will be viewed as an extension of the individual’s educational experience (this often occurs where a college or university exercises oversight over the internship program and provides educational credit). * Sounds like the U can claim oversight “over the internship program.” Nothing says “control” so far as I can see.</p>
<p>While I respect Mini’s (and others’) concern about abuse, I hope my kids get some start of a resume before senior year job hunting. To DH and me, unpaid beats hitting the job market icy cold.</p>
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<p>That’s just terrible, especially when the head of that organization makes millions. Who allows that to stand?</p>
<p>By the way, aren’t all internship positions by default paid positions? If unpaid they are called volunteers, right?</p>
<p>My daughter benefitted greatly from a number of unpaid “internships”. She is extremely grateful for the opportunities and her “bosses” remain her mentors years later. She’d do them all again in a heartbeat. Admittedly, her experiences were in labs and medical settings and that may be the difference in the experience. Did she do free work? Absolutely. Did it benefit her “employer”? Certainly. But I can assure you, she would tell you that received as much or more than they did. If not, why would she have continued doing it? She’d have been out of there. ;)</p>
<p>Fascinating!</p>
<p>Have seen interns in the political sector
…they often got some of the coolest projects and best connections
…their families paid for them to be around (their housing/meals etc and expenses while they were in Washington)</p>
<p>In some cases I think they got a “stipend”</p>
<p>So interesting. I had never thought about internships being <em>illegal</em> before. Are junior counselors, who work without pay at summer camps, then, considered illegal internships?</p>