@CTScoutmom you make some very good points! No one gets ahead by “keeping up with the Jones or the Kardashians.”
@sevmom very true. We paid tuition, travel expenses, health expenses, and textbooks for our kids. We also gave them a small set amount for toiletries. And we paid for the meal plan. If they wanted to take trips, eat out, and have fun, they had to pay for that by getting a job, using birthday or xmas money…
We’ve decided that our daughter gets a job and lives on her own after college. This means she’s not going to be able to come back and live at home to pay off student loans. She has to keep loans at a reasonable level to begin with. We will, of course, help support her in college. We don’t have the money to send her out of state to an exotic university with all expenses paid…not even close. She might even be able to graduate with no debt if she spent her first 2 years at community college. This is going to give her a greater appreciation for her education if she has to pay for most of it. Sometimes the best service you can give your kids is NOT paying for certain things. It teaches them hard work and sacrifice.
I would assume it is a rare young graduate that WANTS to live in mummy’s basement, so I think I would not make such an absolute statement about a current teenager.
I actually think one of the best gifts you can give your kids is an excelent college education without saddling them with debt upon graduation. The whole “kids have to have skin in the game” is a myth. Most kids know the importance of a college education, hard work, and sacrifice without having to be in debt when they are just starting their career. But some families apparently have different priorities…
Both our children don’t have student’s loans, but SO of my oldest does. You can’t filter out SOs with debts and you can’t tell them to only get involved with debt free partners. So as much as we all try to make financially responsible choices life happens.
I’m not sure what education is like where you are, but at the school where I work the “really smart” students take cc classes (and/or AP) in high school. They are beyond the local cc level when they graduate. Not all colleges accept those credits, but some students use them where they go. For these students the merit aid offered to freshman can be decent. Need based aid also often applies.
Many of our “average” students do go to cc, sometimes for two year degrees, sometimes for certification programs, and sometimes with intent to later transfer. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that path for the right student.
FWIW, my own son took the cc Bio 101 class (for credit) and sat in on one of his brother’s Top 30 Research U Bio 101 class when visiting. He called his cc class “Bio Lite” forever after. When I asked him what the difference was he told me (paraphrased), “In our class we learned, ‘There’s an enzyme that assists with that process.’ In _____‘s class they were learning about multiple enzymes, by name, and exactly what each did.’”
I fully understand why ______'s school wouldn’t accept cc credits from entering freshmen. Entering transfer students also had to be careful about which classes would transfer, esp within a major. It’s a research U where most undergrads are doing active, often impressive, research. They indeed may have to know which enzymes are doing what.
That said, there are many students/majors where “an enzyme helping with the process” is as much as one needs to know for Bio 101, so definitely fit “the plan” to the student and their needs. The “really smart” kids should carefully consider if cc is the best path for them.
We’ve told our kids they are always welcome at home as long as they’re not sitting in the basement playing video games expecting others to earn their living.
I feel really glad we have that close relationship. I can’t imagine anything better. Only youngest took us up on it for a year waiting for his wedding, but should the economy tank or “who knows what” happens, they’re always welcome - with families if they have them.
To be clear on our position with loans, our lads needed the federal loans to attend where they did. We paid our share. If we opt to assist with med school loans, that money is coming from an inheritance we expect to get in the relatively near future. We never planned “our” future based upon any inheritance so that money is all extra - undesignated. Our plan is to keep tabs to see if using it to pay off some med school loans is our choice. It may be the Grand Pumba’s way of helping our lad realize his dream without being saddled with really high debt. The amount of debt med school students without extensive family wealth need to take on is definitely excessive IMO. Federal student loans? Not really.
“Which voters could easily change…” At least I got a decent laugh in this morning.
Here’s some data on what average tuition and fees are per state and the rate of change in those costs. PA currently ranks third highest. Looks like VT and NH are making it tough for us to reach #1.
We are second highest in average student debt (to CT):
but that doesn’t break down state vs private school loans.
Tuition and fees aren’t the only obstacles students need to overcome. They also need living expenses (including health care) and sometimes they’re also income assets for their families. Students can get free tuition and still not be able to afford school without loans, esp if they can’t commute. If they do commute, add commuting costs to what they need to come up with in expenses. Really smart students can often find places that work (with assistance from people who know what they’re doing). Average smart students aren’t always as fortunate.
yeah, I get it. I was born in the projects so don’t need no reminder of growing up on the other side of the tracks.
Yup, my side hustle money went to pay for family food most months.
To me, the federal loan limits are reasonable and with a Pell grant, most local colleges are ‘affordable’. (Again, that PA chooses not to make their colleges affordable is a PA issue.)
Right, but lets not have the statistical outlier tail wag the proverbial dog, i.e, this is a local problem. The fact that PA Legislators choose to not fund higher ed as much as other states is something that PA voters can fix if they choose to do so.
I’ve already noted upthread that VT and NH offer free tuition to low income kids; they don’t pay sticker, so list price is meaningless.
From UNH’s website:
Income Level Percent of Freshman Average Assistance
Income 0-30k 4.7% $16,113
Income 30k-48k 3.2% $14,235
Income 48k-75k 4.5% $9,946
Income 75k-110k 6.6% $5,112
Income 110k + 10.6% $1,531
^That is not covering the full cost of attendance which is over $30K. It is a big issue in NH (and VT). These states aren’t covering all the costs.
“(Again, that PA chooses not to make their colleges affordable is a PA issue.)”
It’s certainly a BIG issue for students living in PA.
You seem to indicate that you pulled yourself up by your own bootstraps and others should as well. When did you go to college? What were the costs back then?
On this note, one thing that disturbs me is to see middle-class families being led to believe that taking out loans in order to send their student to an “elite” college or university will be a good move, because the return on investment from an “elite” school will be higher than from a state university.
What many families don’t realize is that some of the elite schools are fairly ruthless in the way they “weed out” students for grad/professional school and high-paying jobs. A student coming from a good but not rigorous high school, who might be highly successful at a state university and afterwards, may be at a significant disadvantage in the competition with more savvy/privileged classmates at an “elite” private college.–and may end up being “sorted” into a lower-end career trajectory than if they had excelled at a state U.
Add on to that the burden of significant educational debt incurred by the student to afford the extra $150-200K it can cost to attend such a college instead of a public university, and those kids can end up permanently compromised in terms of their economic mobility.
Never said that it did. Folks have to eat regardless of what they are doing. They can live at home attend a community college. (Unless you are one that believes that everyone should be able to ‘afford’ a sleep-away college.)
[quote]
“(Again, that PA chooses not to make their colleges affordable is a PA issue.)”
It’s certainly a BIG issue for students living in PA.[/quote
Indeed it is, and the folks in PA can fix it. (But they choose not to. Yes, I get that in the ‘laboratories of democracy’, some state will be first and some other will be last, but PA’s position on the list of higher ed funding is puzzling, to me)
So my question is, what responsibility do the folks in the other 49 states have to educate the kids in PA if the parents in PA choose to underfund (relatively) their own public colleges?