First, if there is a primer for this forum, could someone please send me a link?
I assume T14 means the top 14 law schools as rated by USNews, correct?
My son is beginning his research into Law Schools. He is going to graduated in May 2021 and would like to go on to Law School in Fall of 2021. His current undergraduate GPA is 3.73. He has 8 A+ grades that according to LSAC are considered as 4.33 for Law School. That pushes his LSAC UGPA to 3.88. He is working through some prep material for a LSAC sitting in February. His practice test (2014 LSAC test) was a 166. He knows that he can get that up.
So questions that he has been asking that I wanted to provide answers to is do Law Schools really take a GPA that includes A+? Should he be looking based on his college GPA or the recalculated GPA?
I am sure that we will have a lot more questions and once again, if there is a primer, point me to it!
His GPA is what it says it is on his college transcript. I’ve never heard of anyone applying to law school claiming to have a GPA over 4.0. If your son can boost his LSAT score to 170 or more, he would have a realistic shot at some T14’s with a 3.73 GPA. Obviously, the more he can boost his GPA between now and when the applications go out, the better his chances will be.
I will pass along your advice. He has 3 semesters left and since his first semester he has not gotten anything but A’s. His major is currently Econ with a History minor but he may swap and get History with an Econ minor.
OP, good luck to you and your son. Tell him to focus like a laser on prepping for the LSAT. It’s critical to get a high score if your are gunning for a T14 school.
@jpc763 The GPA is what LSAC says the GPA is, NOT what his undergrad transcript says it is. That includes the calculation with A+= 4.33. Yes, people applying to law schools have GPAs over 4.0.
The tippy top law schools (T6) don’t like KJD’s which are people who are coming straight from undergrad. If there is something - work, a master’s, LSAT prep etc that he can see himself doing for a year or two after undergrad, he will get better admissions results. Having said that, my ds is a KJD. He might (emphasis on might) have gotten into his #1 school instead of his #2 if he had waited a year and reapplied. His 2L summer job, which is likely to turn into a permanent job, probably would not have been any different though.
My advice would be to prep for the LSAT in the summer between junior and senior years at the earliest. LSAT prep is a different animal than SAT prep. It takes a LOT of time.
Only gpa that matters is what LSAC calculates your gpa as, under its formula. That includes A+ as a more than a 4.0. There are other special rules about how gpa is re-adjusted for retaking classes etc.
Post #3 is also correct, but post #1 is incorrect regarding LSDAS GPA calculations.
It is unfair, but LSDAS recognizes “A+” grades and awards 4.33 GPA points. Unfair because most colleges & universities do not offer any grade above an “A”.
That’s wrong. His GPA is wha LSAC says it is – including 4.33’s for A+'s – and that is all law schools care about.
T14* is an official notation for so-called national law schools. In other words, they place (job wise) well nationally; of course the T4 places better than #14. In contrast, most law schools are regional/local. Attending a regional law school in a place that one wants to practice and settle down can be a good idea, if it is low cost. And of course, local law schools can place extremely well in their local market.
*As an aside, where T14 came from is those are the 14 law schools that were ranked at least once in the top 10 of USNews rankings.
My advice is to continue to earn A’s, boost that GPA as high as possible by taking the LSAT after graduation. (enables another semester of A’s, and all professional schools love any kind of work experience.) Ace the LSAT and watch the tax-free merit money roll in.
Not true, with the exception of Yale and maybe Stanford. (They can be really picky as they have small classes.)
The only LS that requires work experience is Northwestern. The others are extremely happy to receive an application from anyone who is above their medians, and particularly their 75 percentile.
@bluebayou My daughter is a URM with a 3.6 undergraduate GPA in Journalism. She’s been working as a newspaper reporter for two years in May. She’s thinking of applying to law school this fall and got a 162 on the LSAT. She lives in Colorado (CU and DU are the law schools here). What law schools do you recommend she look into…a couple reach, a couple safeties, a couple interesting ones? Thank you for any advice you can provide.
URM is a big plus factor, depending on which category. (AA males get the biggest boost.) Other than that, it comes down to two numbers: GPA+LSAT. A retake with a few more correct questions on the LSAT could bring the T14 into play, with merit money.
Check out myLSN.com and play with the numbers and URM box checked. NYU sometimes reaches for those numbers, and even with merit money. The publics in the T14 also like URMs, and Northwestern likes work experience.
Apply broadly by requesting fee waivers. (Short and sweet Email: hello, I’m attracted to your program for [blah, blah, blah.} I’m have two years of work experience after graduation from [insert college} with a 3.6. As a URM with a 162 on the LSAT, might I be eligible for an application fee waiver?)
I’m of the theory to attend the highest ranked LS that yo can afford, but if she happy to practice and live in CO, perhaps try to get a full ride at Boulder. (The t14 will just give her more career options, particularly if she wants to gun for a federal clerkship.)
For best chances, apply early next fall. It’s still not too late to apply now, but the reaches will have gotten ‘reachier’ and merit budgets get used up as they start to fill the fall class.
@COSpgsparent : I can offer a list of law schools for your daughter, but I have some concerns/questions. Since this is someone else’s thread, PM me if you are interested.
I agree with almost everything written in posts #7 & #9 above by @bluebayou except for two minor points.
The T-14 law schools designation is not an “official” notation for so-called national law schools; it is an unofficial designation given to those law schools.
The Univ. of Colorado School of Law is stingy with respect to scholarship money. Unlikely that a 3.6 GPA / 162 LSAT would generate much of an award even though a URM.
^^agreed, yes, the so-called T14 is something that even USNews doesn’t officially recognize; it’s just a popular way for the masses to categorize the top tier law schools from others.
btw: I don’t think I posted that CU was generous (note the word, ‘try’), just that obtaining a full ride from a local school could be a great outcome for those that want to practice and live in that locale. Sry if that was unclear.
Has your potential applicant considered the cost of attending and potential jobs prospects? For the CU 2018 graduating class, of 193 graduates, 155 had full time jobs requiring bar passage. For the DU 2018 class, of 241 graduates, 152 had full time jobs requiring bar passage.
Projected annual cost of attendance at CU(their numbers): $54,120. DU is even more expensive.
Per CU’s numbers:
"Twenty-five percent of the graduates reporting salaries earn $80,000 or more per year.
Twenty-five percent of the graduates reporting salaries earn $54,750 or less per year.
Before applying, it’s worth doing the research on expenses and job prospects.
And regarding scholarships: many, not all, are performance based. In other words, in order to keep the scholarship, a minimum GPA must be maintained. So it’s a good idea to read the fine print in that regard, too.
@oldlaw She went to visit Georgetown this past weekend and loved it. She’s taking the LSAT again to try to raise her score. Thank you for the idea about the job prospect research!
@Publisher She’s performing research on Georgetown scholarships. She has great focus toward a specific goal now (Georgetown)…I think that’s what will motivate her to study hard and do well on the LSAT.