<p>My D is really struggling with her decision. She loved both schools when she visited. She is going to be a biology major (pre-med/pre-vet) but also has a strong interest in studio arts, and Kenyon's brand new studio arts building is a huge draw. On the other hand, Grinnell's lack of distribution requirements is also very attractive, as she is not interested in continuing study of a foreign language. She also would like to play soccer, although she is by no means a star and recognizes it would be a struggle to make the team. She would also like to study abroad for a semester. She tends towards the introverted, nerdy, studious type, but does like to get involved in causes, activities etc. The Greek system has zero appeal for her. Our family is very midwestern, so both colleges seems like good fits personality wise.</p>
<p>Any thoughts? In terms of prestige any real difference? I realize she really can't go wrong since both are wonderful colleges, but she needs a tipping point to decide.</p>
<p>I would say that perhaps Grinnell is a bit more well known than Kenyon.</p>
<p>For example, as an avid New York Times reader, I know that there have been a couple articles about Grinnell over the past couple years, including one about how they are getting a lot of applicants from China, many with 800 SAT scores.</p>
<p>But I would say that the schools are so close in quality that it should come down to which is the better fit or feel for her, rather than rankings, and things like that.</p>
<p>I suggest that you take one more road trip, and visit the two schools again.</p>
<p>And have her perhaps chat with students at the two schools.</p>
<p>IMO, I think Kenyon is a bit more well known that Grinnell (at least out east where I live) but they are both excellent schools so that really should not be an important consideration. Congrats to you and your D.</p>
<p>If it is at all possible, I’d suggest you visit the two schools once again – perhaps for accepted students day, or perhaps you can arrange for her to shadow a student (go to classes, eat in the cafeteria) or even do an overnight visit at each school. For both my kids, having that one last visit with an acceptance in hand was very helpful because they really focused in on if they could see themselves at the school, if they clicked with the kids they met, if the classes and activities were what they were looking for, etc…</p>
<p>Parent of college freshman who had considered both Kenyon and Grinnell. One important difference that I can see is the sciences – Grinnell has a reputation for excellent science, with lots of opportunities for undergrad research etc. My sense, from attending various sessions at Kenyon, is that its science departments probably are not as strong or as well-funded, though I am happy to be corrected by someone who knows more about Kenyon sciences. </p>
<p>Otherwise, it is easy to see the similarities – close, almost insular student bodies with small town (in Kenyon’s case, minuscule). Kenyon is better known, generally, back east than Grinnell is – a generalization, but east coast folks will go to Ohio but Iowa is a tougher sell (I am from east coast originally and moved to midwest about 15 years ago). Both student bodies seem pretty similar – a little quirky but lots of regular, smart, interesting kids. I think Kenyon soccer may be a bit stronger than Grinnell, but I have sons, not daughters, so haven’t paid as close attention to the women’s program at either school. </p>
<p>Personally, the lack of distribution requirements at Grinnell, plus the amazing physical facilities and the slightly “bigger” town presence, would have pushed me to Grinnell but then, remarkably, my son didn’t let me decide! </p>
<p>Good luck to your daughter, both are great schools with lots of opportunities.</p>
<p>I’m a current HS senior, and having visited both, I could personally see myself at either school, though I preferred Grinnell and ended up not applying to Kenyon. Grinnell is more racially and socioeconomically diverse than Kenyon and has a higher percentage of international students. Grinnell is more well-known in the Midwest, of course, and Kenyon is more well-known in the East, but to graduate schools I doubt there is any considerable difference. I know Grinnell’s sciences are very strong, though I preferred Kenyon’s location (less isolated, close to Mt. Vernon) to Grinnell’s. I was also turned off by the Greek scene at Kenyon and ended up not applying. I visited Grinnell last week and really liked it. They also have a much bigger endowment. Just my two cents.</p>
<p>My D loved Kenyon & applied this year. She was also thinking a bio major/studio art minor. The campus is so lovely, too – remote, but I think a different kind of “remote” than Grinnell (cornfields with train tracks through the middle – sorry to the Grinnell fans, but that is how it seemed when we were there). My D is also introverted, studious, nerdy, but loves her volunteer activity. We visited Grinnell, and found it to be too rural… she attended two classes, and found one good/one really pretty awful. We went to Grinnell on a day that were supposed to be special “visit day” with a lot of classes to attend. But there were a couple hundred kids, and ONE science class available to sit in with only a few spaces that were snatched up quickly. All other classes were English, social studies, foreign language, and a few math classes. We were unimpressed that they could not somehow find a way to be more welcoming to science students. After she went to the first class (which was not good), she asked me if she could go to a second one. Because as she said, “Right now my impression of the school is really poor… but I would like to go to another class and see how that is.” It was good, but not enough to turn her into an applicant.</p>
<p>Kenyon, on the other hand, had a special science tour we went on that really helped answer a lot of questions, we got to go into a lab where students were doing research and talk to them, etc. I am not sure my D will end up at Kenyon because she has developed a strong interest in Physics this year (and has not been admitted yet anyway!) and they aren’t as strong in that field, but she really has a soft spot for it. If she got some merit aid, I bet she would have gone there in a heartbeat if she was still looking at bio. And the new art building IS fantastic. :D</p>
<p>By the way, I do not see Kenyon as an Ivy reject school at all. It is very attractive to girls who love English and art in particular. Neither of the young men who were our tour guides (regular tour & science tour) seemed like “Ivy rejects” – they clearly loved Kenyon and were excited to be there. And were not at all fratty/preppy. In my mind, the Ivy reject schools we visited where that vibe was strong were Connecticut College and Colby.</p>
<p>Those are very thoughtful and helpful answers from everyone, thank you. I think visiting both schools once more is probably the answer, if there is time (soccer season etc).</p>
<p>I don’t know if you saw the Grinnell art facilities when you visited or not, but the department website has pictures of all the studios and examples of student work in most media (check out the curriculum page on the department website). </p>
<p>Otherwise, IMO two big differences between the schools are the proximity of the town and the presence of Greek life.</p>
<p>Kenyon has one street attached to the campus, while Grinnell has a whole town two blocks away. Not a big metropolis, but the students do have easy access to restaurants if they want, as well as a variety of opportunities to get involved in the local community as a volunteer. I thought Kenyon felt the most isolated of any campus we visited.</p>
<p>I don’t know how much of a factor Greek life is or not on the Kenyon campus, but I would really research this more. At Grinnell, the campus has one big party every Saturday night at the Harris Center which is themed and for the entire school. If your D doesn’t like big parties, no worries: there is plenty to do and certainly not all students attend Harris parties, but my point is that the activities at Grinnell are always designed to be open to all students.</p>
<p>Self-governance is also a big component of the Grinnell experience. This is designed to foster a sense of individual and communal responsibility and contributes alot the campus culture.</p>
<p>If soccer is important to her, but she is not a star, it seems to me that understanding what the opportunities available to her would be on the list of further research.</p>
<p>In terms of prestige, I wouldn’t let this be a factor at all. Neither school is top of mind to the general public, although I guess Kenyon might be for its writing programs and its swim team? I would imagine that grad schools know each school well. </p>
<p>I imagine that both schools offer an individualized approach to Career and post-grad counseling. I do know that Grinnell offers funding for summer internships and research, and also has on-campus opportunities – has your daughter taken a look at the Mentored Advanced Program at Grinnell? I don’t know if they allow students to take on more than one project over the course of their academic career, but if they did, it’s conceivable she could do one in science and one in art. </p>
<p>FWIW, my S tried the spreadsheet approach to making his decision, but that really didn’t work. For him, it came totally down to a perceived fit with the student body after visiting schools once accepted. </p>
<p>I am amazed that his radar was so accurate. He has so many friends and just loves it there. Feels completely at home. </p>
<p>Personally, I had the sense that he would have had a good experience at any school – great education, interesting activities to pursue, etc. – but at most schools, he would have had to find his “niche” socially. At Grinnell, it just didn’t seem like he’d have to do that, and that is how his experience has borne out. I don’t know if this makes sense and it’s hard to explain, but it’s just something about the school – perhaps it is that open, accepting attitude and the “Self-Gov is Love” philosophy that defines Grinnellians.</p>
<p>Thanks for the additional comments. I am also persuaded that the science departments at grinnell are stronger (I saw some nice data on progression to Ph.D. among graduates of Grinnell).</p>
<p>For what it is worth, on our visit, Grinnell did not seem nearly as quirky as we expected it would be. In fact, my then high school senior and I had an argument because he made some snarky remark about jocky-looking male students. Oberlin had a more overtly artsy/independent feel to it than Grinnell. While hardly definitive, my sense is that Grinnell students are more like Haverford students than they are like Reed or Hampshire students.</p>
<p>I would agree with the majority of the posters on this board–Kenyon and Grinnell aren’t characterized by what schools they were rejected from. As strange as it may seem, not every stop student applies to Ivy League schools or top research universities!</p>
<p>Well first, my S did not apply to the Ivies…no appeal, just not his thing and/or what his world is about He is at Kenyon, and is instrospective and nerdy and quirky and is very, very happy. From day one, and in the first week, kenyon goes out of their way to assimilate freshman with a wonderful orientation week…it has been a wonderful match for an outlier kid. Feel free to PM me if you have questions about Kenyon, but we couldn’t be happier with everything there.</p>
We visited Grinnell, and found it to be too rural… she attended two classes, and found one good/one really pretty awful. We went to Grinnell on a day that were supposed to be special “visit day” with a lot of classes to attend. But there were a couple hundred kids, and ONE science class available to sit in with only a few spaces that were snatched up quickly. All other classes were English, social studies, foreign language, and a few math classes. We were unimpressed that they could not somehow find a way to be more welcoming to science students. After she went to the first class (which was not good), she asked me if she could go to a second one. Because as she said, “Right now my impression of the school is really poor… but I would like to go to another class and see how that is.” It was good, but not enough to turn her into an applicant.</p>