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<p>My daughter is an industrial engineering major. It IS part of the engineering department. She has to take more math than her bf, who is a civil engineering major. Every major in the engineering department is rigorous, some more than others, some in different ways than others.</p>
<p>Good luck to you, OP. I’m sure it’s hard to go through something like this.</p>
<p>I do not agree with some of the “shape up or ship out” comments on this thread…since you’re clearly stated that your child owns the behavior and knows it needs to change. But there is some very valuable advice regarding alternatives…especially the initial analysis of alternatives in Blossom’s post #34. </p>
<p>Perhaps your son could major in applied math, bring his grades up, and then get a 1 or 2 year masters in engineering. If he can find employment in a company that hires both applied math (or physics, or…) majors and engineers, they might even subsidize the engineering masters.</p>
<p>Thank you all for the suggestions, especially those for options #1 and #3, as my son has already considered and discarded option #2 of changing majors/careers. The idea that there are no other great choices for him comes from him, not from me – I have suggested other majors and gotten the old “eye-roll” in response. He is determined to be an engineer. Being older and (I hope) wiser, I certainly understand that there are probably other choices that would make him happy in the long-term. But he has to find his own way…</p>
<p>There are a lot of good ideas here and I will share them with my son. He has already scheduled a meeting with his school to discuss next steps, including temporarily changing majors, retaking classes, etc.</p>
<p>He is very capable of excelling in an engineering program. His problem was not that he couldn’t do the work – simply that he didn’t do the work because he meandered off into distractions. I think he has learned his lesson, but only time will tell.</p>
<p>My special thanks to those of you who offered so many kind thoughts – they are appreciated!</p>
<p>Good luck and all the best to your son!</p>
<p>Mum, I was [essentially] called into the Dean’s office in the end of the first quarter of my junior year and asked to change my major, no hurry as long as I did it by 3:00pm.</p>
<p>The interesting thing I caught in your account was that your S wandered off into distractions. What occurs to me—and I don’t see any way to easily probe for this—is that on one hand he really really really wants to be an engineer. But part of him subconsciously doesn’t. </p>
<p>Note: it took me decades to figure out that instead of engineering at UC Santa Barbara I should have applied for Government at Georgetown. Ah, well. Life is what you make it. But I had really really really wanted to work on the space program…</p>
<p>I tend to agree with TheDad’s post. OP, you say your son has a “passion” for engineering, yet when faced with a make or break challenge that passion was insufficient to get him to overcome his self-admitted slacking off.</p>
<p>Or to put it the way my father once put it to me, “Results don’t lie”.</p>
<p>As TheDad suggests, perhaps he’s coming to the realization that engineering may not be for him. It may be easier for him to hold onto the idea of being an engineer than face the uncertainty of finding the “something else”.</p>
<p>I disagree with those who say this young man has no future in engineering because of some youthful mistakes.</p>
<p>Sometimes, the most important things learned in college don’t come from books or lectures. A key part of college is students learning about themselves. Sometimes, those lessons can be painful. But painful lessons can blast away our youthful, rough edges of pride and invincibility. We are left a little older and much, much wiser.</p>
<p>A song lyric reminds us that we often “don’t know what we’ve got until it’s gone.” Maybe the OP’s son has learned something very valuable about himself and about life–something that will help him not only in college but far beyond. </p>
<p>I work for a person with a slightly opposite situation–but I think there may be some similarities. This person has his BS in Civil Engineering. But he never passed the P.E. exam. He has taken the exam as many times as is allowed, and never passed. He manages dozens of PEs–and many other employees. But he does not have his PE (in part because he is dyslexic.) He admitted to me once that he is a lousy test-taker and has very bad test anxiety.</p>
<p>However, he is the best manager, most incredible problem-solver, and skilled “people person” I have ever worked for. He has been my employer’s Employee of the Year for his many accomplishments.</p>
<p>Those who judge a person only by their score on one test or their grades in two years of college may be writing them off too soon. The OP’s son acknowledges he needs to correct his mistakes. </p>
<p>He may have to transfer out of a prestigious school, but I think he can find another school where he will do well. And oftentimes, graduates from the “School of Hard Knocks” get something even more valuable: wisdom.</p>
<p>Well, your son will put his desire to the test. Maybe not such a bad thing. No doubt he realizes that if he wants to be an engineer he has to be willing to step up to the education end of it. If he gets to stay for a do-over great, otherwise clearly there are some very fine engineering schools that would probably like to have him and his desire! Good luck to him (and you). You always wonder just how committed your kids are to their major, you will certainly find out how committed your son is.</p>
<p>And some of this might just be TIMING. Some kids are very interested in a field but they are just not ready for the work it takes in college to complete the degree. I know more than one person who flunked out of undergrad school, found something else to do for a while (for some…it was years) and went back to school and obtained their degrees. Not everyone is suited to doing this right out of high school at a residential college with all of the other distractions that are there. I think this kid WILL become an engineer if he is motivated to do so. I’m not sure THIS school will give him that opportunity (they already gave him ONE chance…he fell below their mark for two terms). As others have said…either he can choose another major that is related to engineering or he can consider a transfer to another school.</p>
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I think this is the key. A 2.45 major GPA for engineering isn’t all that bad or very far below their threshold. this breaks down to two things -</p>
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<li><p>Can/will he really do the difficult work engineering classes require? Just wanting to do do it or even just having some aptitude for it isn’t enough. If this reality check has caused him to have an epiphany and he realizes that distractions (friends, video games, texting, TV, partying, etc.) simply aren’t compatible with this major then he knows he simply has to control it and choose one or the other.</p></li>
<li><p>If he’s convinced that he can do the work and control his distractions, then he should see what he can do to stay there whether it means an extended probation or retaking the courses. Ideally, he should retake the courses he did the worst in so he can make sure he truly understands the material and raise his GPA in the process. This might still be a no-go if the college is firm on it in which case his only options will be to switch to some other major there or to some other college. </p></li>
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<p>Good luck to him - I hope it works itself out.</p>
<p>I concur with those who are saying that engineering is a tough, tough major and the grade requirements in the intro classes are there to weed out those who may not be able to keep up in the advanced classes.</p>
<p>As an undergrad I really wanted to major in business because of the security–however math was my weakest subject, and business requires a ton of math. I excelled at and loved social science of any sort: psych, history, anthro–you name it–I loved all that and got A’s. However I kept plugging away at business, making B’s and C’s. I did not get any attention from faculty and no job offers when I finished school. </p>
<p>I really wish there had been a minimum GPA in my major–I had this fixation on something that really was not the right thing, and it cost me a lot in terms of opportunities both in school and afterward–for example almost all grad programs require a minimum GPA of 3.0 from undergrad. I really can’t go back and undo what I did at this point.</p>
<p>Do have a heart to heart with your son and make sure he understands that if he LIKES technical stuff there will always be opportunities for him as a project manager or similar–but he should find something he loves AND can do well at grade wise so that he does not hurt his opportunities for internships, jobs and the rest of it after college. </p>
<p>An A student in a softer major will have more choices than a C+/B- engineer.</p>
<p>I don’t mean to be rude (and I have a 15yr old son who may well find himself in this same position a few years from now!), but if engineering is your son’s “passion”, how does he do in classes that DON’T interest him? Engineering, because of the math and science courses, is easy to quantify- unlike a music, drama or even an art major- and so they can easily set miniumum levels of expected performance. I doubt that your son entered into the major without knowing what was expected of him, and I am sure that he was informed after doing poorly in the first semester. Other kids do the work and get the grades, therefor it IS possible. To allow a student to cruise through without keeping up his end of the bargain is unfair to the students who are making it and it isn’t doing your son a service either. Maybe this isn’t for him, or maybe he just needs time to mature- I know my eldest son did, while my middle one, my daughter, who is off to college this fall, could have gone early and still been at the top of her class. Take it one step further and imagine your son employed in a firm where a group of engineers are working together on a project. He is more interested in {fill in the blank}, so he doesn’t do his part of the project. Do you think that the others would put up with that? Most likely not! All of that aside, I am the mother of 2 sons also, and both of them have had problems settling into schooling, even though both test at the “genius” level (whatever that means)- they needed more time, the youngest one still does (high school, and now, spending the summer in “summer school”!!). They’re not “bad” people, just as your son is not. It takes time, maturity and wisdom to know what is expected and how to handle what is assigned to them. Maybe your S just needs to take a year at a CC and get his head together. College is expensive, let him take core courses and work PT. Many CCs have agreements with 4 yr colleges to guarantee acceptance and transfer credits providing that the standards are met. I feel for you, I really do. Sit down and talk to your son and lay it out for him, let him respind and come up with viable alternatives. I would be interested in hearing what the results are- wishing him luck and also to you. Hang in there-I’ve learned that’s part of what CC is…a great place to vent and get ideas.</p>
<p>OP: You can now give me the eye-roll just like your son gives you, but if this was my child I would ask him to change majors. Not give up the dream of becoming an engineer, but just change majors.</p>
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<p>First of all, here is wishing your son well from someone who understands the “passion” for engineering. From my personal experience and from dealing with other engineering types, engineering “passion” is more of a mindset–an enjoyment of problem-solving and a fascination in understanding how things work. Those of us with this mindset don’t really know what else we could do. Unfortunately we are still human and this “passion” doesn’t necessarily equate to an all-consuming drive to study forty hours a week or the maturity to do the problem sets when the guys are playing football in the quad or partying down the hall. </p>
<p>Engineering courses can be tough, and the difference between an A and a C can be blowing a final exam in a subject that you thought you understood but didn’t, particularly when engineering profs aren’t always known for being the best teachers. Also, the intro courses (thermo, etc.) can be a bit dry, with the “fun” courses coming in the last two years. The fact that your son has not gotten the grades necessary to stay in the program can easily be a maturity issue more than one of interest or aptitude. Some kids have learned in high school how to earn the grades while others have coasted through HS without too much effort and don’t hit the wall until college. </p>
<p>It sounds like your kid may be at the stereotype Georgia Tech variety of weeder schools, which may not be very flexible with their policies. If so, a transfer may not be out of the question. After two years, though, I wouldn’t think that there are any core courses left to take at a CC, though, so would look for an “easier” school with an engineering or an “engineering lite” program. If he can’t develop the work ethic, then a “softer” major may be in the cards, though I don’t know what else would hold his interest. </p>
<p>With due respect to vicariousparent, to me changing to a non-engineering major would definitely feel like giving up the dream of becoming an engineer. Sure, there are other ways to do technical work, but it they are ill-defined paths that are hard for the true engineering types to even visualize. </p>
<p>Best wishes, and let us know what happens.</p>
<p>Side note: my engineering background held me in good stead for a number of years when I was a technical writer, “translating high-tech into English,” as I put it. I could frame questions in technically appropriate language in such a way that would make my interview subjects comfortable and then write material so that non-technical decision-makers could understand it. The bonus for me was that I wasn’t nailed down into any one project and that I could learn lots of things about many different products and technologies (some I enjoyed more than others…voltage rectifiers anyone?) in a way that was intellectually rewarding to me.</p>
<p>I haven’t read all of this thread, but I wonder what kind of engineering your son is passionate about. Does he want to build things or design things? Does he like to problem solve when things don’t work? Is he a do-er or a thinker?</p>
<p>If he’s a hands-on sort, and builds things, perhaps he doesn’t belong in college at all. He may belong in one of the professions, like electrician or automotive maintenance, where the ability to understand how things work and then fix them is more important than the ability to do book work.</p>
<p>TheDad- Sounds like you have had an interesting career, and I’m somewhat envious! A significant fraction of engineering types–the Dilberts of the world (search you-tube for “The Knack”)–couldn’t graduate as government majors or survive as technical writers. </p>
<p>None of us here know if the kid can’t handle the courses or if he is addicted to video games. I can’t understand why so many folks are ready to send him off to community college or mechanics school. Good luck.</p>
<p>D02, I’ve got great math skills for the general population, really sucky for an engineer. Thing is, I could have probably prevailed and become a very mediocre engineer, never having lead responsibilities on a project or things like that. In retrospect, what should have tipped me off was my reaction to the work part of the engineering co-op I was on, working for the Navy at a missile test facility (Point Mugu). Conceptually, I loved all the stuff I was around. But the workday routine with my colleagues and the general micro-collaborative routine I found stifling. </p>
<p>(Helpful Hint #243 to All: Your career choice isn’t looking good if you’re always looking forward to your next break or vacation. Otoh, if you look up and wonder where the time went, or wish you had accomplished more that day…)</p>
<p>I was tabbed by an eventual “wash out” by the program director the very first summer after graduation from high school. To make academic progress, we had to take a history class on base, for which we were released from work for two hours every morning. The program director doubled as adjunct faculty for the local CC and one day was talking about Washington’s retreat from Long Island and said, “Some generals retreat better than others.”</p>
<p>I instantly interjected, “Polish generals?” </p>
<p>He later told me that highly verbal smartasses were poor candidates to make it through engineering school. Temperamentally, I can now look back and it’s <em>so</em> clear to me that I was proceeding down a blind alley. But I had little effective counsel, either from family or from schools. Which perhaps in turn explains why I’ve hung around College Confidential so much. Chapter 19: Don’t Let This Happen To You.</p>
<p>Most engineering schools have written policies about steps necessary for reinstatement. As others have posted, he needs to speak with the undergraduate dean about this.</p>
<p>I don’t know if this is the case with your son’s school, but at many universities there are a few majors where a student can get the same degree from either the Engineering or Arts & Sciences departments. This is very common for students in physics or computer science, which are sometimes listed as majors within both departments. Some of the distribution requirements may differ, but courses in the major are identical whether the student graduates with a BS or BA. This would not apply to more specialized fields like civil engineering.</p>
<p>Just read all of the posts- please revive this thread in future weeks/months and let us know what your son ended up doing. </p>
<p>I know I never wanted to be an engineer- I was a chemistry major and was aware of the differences in pure/engineering sciences. It is better to have “screwed up” now than spending more time in a program and not succeeding- a different college may fit his needs better.</p>