<p>I'm even more on the side of stop the madness. I'm all about applying to 5 carefully chosen at the most. I can maybe understand 8 but even that feels excessive and unfocused to me. I simply can't imagine my kids doing that many well crafted applications. I get where there might be a unusual circumstance where someone might need to cast a wide net but that feels more like the exception than the rule. Eighteen? Sounds like a fishing expedition to me and fishing for what?</p>
<p>Our DD did 8. But for DS, I am thinking about 10+, mostly for $$. </p>
<p>Reach: S SCEA + 5~6 Ivy
Match: UNC CH, LAC??, others
Financial Safety: 2</p>
<p>There will be no academic safety, b/c none needed</p>
<p>My kids had researched and had also visited all of the 14-15 schools on their lists. There was a "good reason" for each school on the list - primarily academic but in the case of my younger son, athletic for a few of the schools. I understand that it's a lot of schools, and as I said above, maybe ultimately they would have only filled out applications for 12 or so - but even now when I look at the lists, the lists still make sense. There were a lot of very tough schools to get into on the lists - each year on CC highly qualified kids are surprised to not get into many of these schools.</p>
<p>I'm not saying this makes sense as a general approach, but it can make sense for some. I think applying to all 8 Ivies is a crazy approach - some very different schools in that group.</p>
<p>I have a slightly different take on the debate "should I focus and apply to very few, well selected schools" or "should I cast a wide net"?</p>
<p>I am tend to be a working anti-hover mom with two children now in private liberal arts colleges. As a family, we did not go on a pre-application college tour (though we did visit examples of a large university and a small local private liberal arts college within driving distance of our home). I did challenge both my children to research the types of schools they wished to apply for. We did discuss over many family dinners their educational questions and their rationale and desires for a college education. This was process they led.</p>
<p>I did not place a limit on the number of applications they could submit. The application fee pales in comparison to the potential cost of 4 years of college, which is running close to $160 per child. Their self-chosen limit was how much effort or time each wished to devote to applications on their own. Each of my children had very broad interests and each was uncertain as to whether they wanted a large university or small college. In large part, researching and writing the essays was part of the process. I was amazed at how each child wrote several different types of essays to different schools. After the fact, I think they were exploring their different interests and testing which schools would fit each of their broad interests.</p>
<p>I also note that my each of my children greatly matured during the process of their senior year and during the application process. What they initially chose as their top schools from end of junior year through Dec of their senior years, was very different than what they chose to attend when the May deposit deadlines arrived (and yes we only placed on deposit down for each of my children).</p>
<p>As a med school professor on admission committees and as someone who reads and writes many letters of recommendations, I am also suspect of teachers who recommend limiting numbers of student applications. Is there an element of trying to reduce their work load? A reasonable request on their part which I understand in my professional like. But as a parent, my role as my child's advocate is too support their development and support their process of making a life-impacting choice.</p>
<p>So, I think that the number of applications is a very personal choice for each student applying to college strongly modified by the households ability to afford application fees. I cannot state there is a better or worse recommended number of applications. Clearly, unresearched, unfocused blanket applications surely will have lower success rates. However, if a student needs to research and explore many different facets of themselves AND has the time, ability and desire to submit well-researched, school specific applications, "Good on them".</p>
<p>one error in the above post: college education is not $160 per child (wish it was)!! I meant to type $160K (or $160,000 for four years of college)</p>
<p>My son is applying to 12 (for what we think are good reasons), but I have to say, it's a big burden. Almost all of them require additional essays tailored to the school, and now alumni interviews are getting scheduled. The fees add up, and then there's the cost of making and mailing the arts supplement. A student should definitely think twice before applying anywhere just for the heck of it.</p>
<p>I don't believe in a high school putting a limit on how many apps a student can do. I do think it is a personal choice and many factors come into play. I just happen to think that it is the rare exception to truly need more than 12 or 13 schools. I feel my kids researched schools thoroughly, visited, and created appropriate lists that would yield results (and they did) even in highly competitive admissions processes. They each had 8 schools. My older child then applied to highly competitive graduate programs with very low admit rates. She applied to ten. Each time their lists were appropriate to them and yielded many positive results. I work with many applicants. Most have kept it to under 13 and it has been a lot of work with numerous essays and so forth. If they want a longer list, I can't stop them but I have encouraged them to focus the list so that there are results and options in spring but that they don't have to BEGIN the process of selection at that juncture but be further along with their focus. I really think most situations can work with under 12 apps but there might be justifiable reasons for more. But not much more. When applicants have 15, 18, 22 apps, I think there lacks focus. Each applicant should have a choice of at least two acceptances if they build their list in a balanced and appropriate way, even if only applying to 8 schools.</p>
<p>I concur with Hunt about the effort and cost. I also suggest that it is not a simple decision. </p>
<p>One of my children did 9 very well researched applications (8 acceptances-with 4 that I judged as reach schools). My other child applied to 23 (20 acceptances), but this child was choosing between
a) music focused schools,
b) science focused schools or
c) broader liberal arts schools-which did not have as developed programs in either focus as more specialized programs.</p>
<p>This broad set of applications reflected the uncertainty of whether to pursue education at a top program in one of two competing interests or whether to pursue middle approach -education at a liberal arts school. This was a tremendous amount of work on my child's part (interviews, supplementary submissions, specialized essays), but this was part of the discernment process for this one!</p>
<p>So again, I would conclude that with the caveat that family finances are the final deciding factor, all else about appropriate number of applications must reside in the hands of the applying student!</p>
<p>I deal with many applicants seeking a specialized field. If they pursue a BFA, it requires a huge commitment upon application (as well as a huge chunk of their time in college). For those who are undecided, they are more appropriate candidates to BA schools where that commitment to apply directly into a program, let alone devote 70% of your time to it in college, is not required. If someone is uncertain, it is a symptom, in my opinion, that points to applying to BA schools that don't require a commitment. By applying to 10 programs requiring that commitment and 10 schools that don't, that decision is being prolonged. Further, the indecision is a great indicator that a BA is a more appropriate path. I strongly recommend a BA path for those who are uncertain, as opposed to applying directly into specialized programs. The BFA programs these kids are considering require a 110% commitment.</p>
<p>Soozievt,</p>
<p>I understand your recommendation for the generic student with "likes" in two different areas. But it isn't a blanket recommendation fitting all students with two strong passions. The senior HS student (17-18 year old) can be in the process of making that decision of extending their substantial commitment to two particular specialized fields (in which they have had substantial beyond HS school achievement and success). The application and interview process can be part of the discernment process. Making this decision (even by hedging with a LAC) has large subsequent life/career consequences.</p>
<p>Thus, I continue to stress that arbitrary number choices of 8, 12, 42 (exaggeration!) based on somewhat arbitrary logic about likely admittance, and fit are not helpful. An arbitrary number is a target to be challenged (often not on appropriate grounds). </p>
<p>It is much more helpful to facilitate students into investigating in substantial depth
a) their rationale for college,
b) their goals (broad education or focused launching pad)
c) commitment to education versus "college experience"
d) realistic examination of their track record to date
AND then to challenge the students into completing well-done applications (actively critiquing without rewriting). I think this is where most of us fall down in helping our students and why many send off ill-advised blanket applications that display little real effort or research into the school. </p>
<p>Let the students (not parents) initiate and complete the applications. As long as the student stays within the financial budget limitations, they will tend to set their limits by their own willingness to make all of these efforts. </p>
<p>As a minor aside, I have to admit,
I have always hated the usage of more than 100% as hyperbole and unrealistic verbage.</p>
<p>Both DDs applied to five schools, all in the safety/match categories. They visited about 10 each to make sure they would be willing to attend. I think the uptick in applications numbers can be tied to the use of the common application and the internet (remember when you had to write for an application form?) and the school rankings that are prevalent. Prior to the rankings attendance at all schools seemed to be more regional.</p>
<p>I definitely think this is a case by case basis. I don't have a set number of schools that each applicant should have. Each of my advisees is applying to a different number of schools and many factors come into play for individuals. So, I don't believe in a certain number of applications as right for all by any means. </p>
<p>I also agree that well done applications are crucial. I'm not into sending out more apps just because it is possible to just "do them." I think great care needs to go into each app and also into demonstrating specific interest in each college. To that end, I think ideally, most students (unless there are justifiable reasons for an exception), likely can make this happen with under 13 schools. That leaves room of making some decisions later but also requires some focus and direction to narrow it to 13 or less. Otherwise, I think the level of decision making in April will have to be condensed into a very short period of time. If one had to decide between 12 acceptances and which kind of program to pursue or major in and hasn't visited and all that, it puts off all the decision making. I think the decision making makes it through one level of focus/narrowing in fall of senior year and then fine tuning in spring when options are in hand. I just don't think most kids need more than 12 or 13 schools in order to have options in the spring. A well crafted college list should account for some indecision, some balance, some options and to yield some results. </p>
<p>Sorry about the use of 110%. My point was that for those who seek specialized programs that require a commitment before applying and require a substantial amount of their college curriculum's focus, it only makes sense to apply if very certain of that path. For those who are unsure, a BA type path where no commitment is forced in fall of senior year is often the more appropriate path as it leaves room for options and for decisions once in college.</p>
<p>After reading all of this I took a moment to be thankful that each of my kids got into their ED schools. I can not even imaginee the logistical nightmare and stress of applying to so many schools.</p>
<p>Did it drive any of you to drink?</p>
<p>Sooziet,
Well said. </p>
<p>I do keep avoiding the number game because I watch on this site and a few others how parents and students become quite fixated on insignificant differences in numbers rather than focusing on the real issues: deciding the student's purpose for going to college and whether that school actually meets that purpose!</p>
<p>I just prefer to keep refocusing on the actual purpose (and actual real effort)-regardless of the numbers required to get there!</p>
<p>hmom5-
We (parents of our two kids), mostly played a socratic role in our kids exploration and application process. So I had to say, it was a very enjoyable process for us listening and discussing over dinner their evolving thought process. Even more interesting was listening to their rationale for the essays they wrote! In a million years, I would never have taken the approaches they took, but evidently it worked for each of them (and really reflected their unique and strong personalities)!</p>
<p>the driven to drink element was school independent-the tuition!!</p>
<p>Hm, I just want to add that people with so many schools haven't always neglected their research. I don't have a very clear idea of what I want to go to do, so I chose schools with strong programs in three areas -- music, biology/neurobiology, and international studies. I have six of each, roughly, interspersed among difficulty of admission (just because it seems like the music schools are my financial safeties, my biology/neurobiology schools are all of them, and international studies seems to be more expensive). As well, I looked for schools that may have clubs/intramural sports/a student body that seemed to match my interests. It just seemed to fit to have a ton of schools to choose from, in my case.</p>
<p>Chelsea0011 -- thanks, glad to hear that you agree with me.</p>
<p>Why did I click on that link? Scary! This is why I stay on the parents forums.</p>
<p>18 seems like too many to me. It seems like you could easily have two that you feel very, very similar about and had very similar chances, so why apply to both? But, if you can afford it, and you really like all the schools, I guess go for it. I only applied to five, and will apply to one more if I don't get in early to my first choice (1 reach, 2 match, 2 safety+1 reach). My brother applied to 8. </p>
<p>Funny story-a boy a few grades above me applied to 21 schools. Got into them all. Ended up not going to college.</p>
<p>5, 15, 25
No number is a magic or appropriate number. Nor is it as simple as reach, match, safety.
This really is a process of discernment of focus with life-long impact that is not limited to Oct-Dec nor April-May. It really is trivializing the process to reduce colleges to these three categories (safety, reach, match). There is so much more to consider.</p>
<p>I have found many students quite change their focus and priorities between Nov/Dec applications and May deposit/decision time as they mature through their senior year. In reality the decision is a made neither in a few days in the fall or spring but is an evolving process over at least 6 months. </p>
<p>The cost of 4 years college is the cost of a home. The cost of applications pales in comparison. Each student must decide on the effort and breadth that they wish to expend in this process.</p>
<p>Well said, ParAlum, that's been our philosophy as well. DS is much more focused on the process than he had been, and while it's great for some to say that kids should have all their schools outlined/visited/researched in their junior year, that just didn't happen at our house, or many others I suspect.</p>