Know what you're getting yourself into

Colleges and Universities A-Z Washington University in St. Louis
1

<p>Every school is different and WashU is definitely not suitable for everyone, despite being a school that prides itself on diversity. You don't go to school to party or make friends; you go to study and ultimately land a sucessful job. Friends and the social scene just happen along the way.</p>

<p>Personally, I hate WashU; I came to school to ultimately learn and get a successful career, and I've failed that miserably; worst part is that no one in the school is willing to help, not even the career advisors, and that's their job. I'm graduating soon and looking at a future of unemployment. All I did was have the ambition to go a seemingly prestigious school and strive hard to learn. I am punished for trying to be a hardworking student. Do you know what it feels like? To have spent so much money and come so far away from home to attend a prestigious school, and after you're done, you end up unemployed or working at a factory or some horrible minimum wage job?</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Unreasonably high tuition. Tuition alone costs over 44,000 this year and rises after every year. Food, housing and other expenses will cost almost another 20,000. Seriously, good luck trying to pay that off. I've had scholarships, but even if you have a full-ride here, money is only one issue.</p></li>
<li><p>Too much work for too little results. You will work almost 24/7 regardless of your major (not just premeds or engineers, though they probably have it the worst). Your GPA's going to go down very quickly. The professors almost take pleasure in doing this. In some classes, the professor will even say no one ever gets As.</p></li>
<li><p>Reputation problem. Let's be honest, no one's heard of WashU. People will think you go to George Washington University or University of Washington in Seattle. Some people don't even know where St. Louis is, or whether it exists. There's more vegetation in STL than buildings, so it's literally in the middle of nowhere. Employers don't know about WashU either; they'll just think you attend some random mediocre state school. If you get a bad GPA, and you most likely will, there's no excuse. They say an B/C in an Ivy school is an A anywhere else, but a B/C at WashU means B/C; to the employers, it means you're unfavorable candidate. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>US News should update their rankings, because how can a school no one's every heard be ranked higher than half the Ivies?</p>

<ol>
<li><p>It's dangerous. Much of STL, especially around the school, people get mugged at gunpoint; some of my friends even saw it happen in their apartments right next to campus and it even occurs on campus every once in a while. A recent shooting also occurred in the Delmar Loop area (popular hangout area next to campus).</p></li>
<li><p>Over-priced, small portion meals. The food staff carefull measure how much food to give, and it's always a really small portion. They also cost a lot, especially if you want extra portions. There's no war raging in STL and food isn't scarce. There's no need to carefully ration out food.</p></li>
<li><p>Math department needs improvement. Every can agree most of the math department faculty aren't good professors. There's usually only 1 good professor each year, and there may not even be any left by next year. Calc 1,2,3 are usually required courses are many majors, and math in general is an essential skill. You need to be good at math if you're going to land a high-paying and needed job, and there needs to be a good math department to support that.</p></li>
<li><p>Erratic weather. It could be 70 degrees today and blizzarding tomorrow. True story.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>This is un-sugarcoated truth. I think you should stay away from WashU at all costs. But if you still think it's right for you, then come, but realize what you're getting yourself into and pray it won't be a mistake you'll deeply regret. I'm not the only person who has this opinion of WashU; some people hate WashU a lot more.</p>

2

<p>Just going to offer up my rebuttal before people think TheFallenOne’s experience is the norm (it is not, by any means). To the OP- I hope you don’t take my post as an attack by any means. I’m just offering up a counter-viewpoint. </p>

<p>First off - TheFallenOne is a business student, iirc. The Olin Career Center is fantastic, and I believe the stats for graduating BSBA students is somewhere around >95% job placement within 6 months of graduation with an average starting salary between 60 and 70k. TheFallenOne’s situation seems to be that of an outlier – if you look at .</p>

<p>edit: this is probably of relevance - <a href=“http://olincareers.wustl.edu/SiteCollectionDocuments/PDFs/WCC/EmploymentBSBA.pdf[/url]”>Error;

<p>Second - WashU has a very low transfer rate & is constantly in princeton review’s list of “happiest students” for a reason. Most people are indeed happy here, and believe they made the right choice. Are some unhappy? Of course. It’s impossible to please 100% of a group as large as the WashU student body.</p>

<p>Third - I’m going to touch on each of the points raised:</p>

<p>1) Can’t really argue that. Tuition is expensive. But that’s the case at lots of private schools, especially those in WashU’s peer group. Finances are something you of course need to look at before choosing a school, and I’ve never understood why people are shocked that tuition increases every year: WashU has raised it 4-6% every year for at least 2 decades (and all peer schools are similar. It’s why most schools in the cluster cost 40-50k) – it should not come as a surprise to anyone. In my case, it wasn’t something I’ve ever had to worry about, so I’ll stop my commenting here.</p>

<p>2) That’s a bit nonsensical and over-exaggerated. I was an engineering major (and bme at that for the first two years), yet I still had time to go out and party at least twice a week. There were plenty of moments where I was stressed, but never overwhelmed. I know that happens for some, but I’m not even a “top” student - I graduated with ~ a 3.5, and I wasn’t even in the top 50% rankings wise. I’m by all means ‘below average’ - so it’s not like only a minority of students can succeed.
Again, yes, there are quite a few students who struggle maybe a bit too much, but that’s a very small minority. For the record, I’ve had an internship, a co-op, and got a post-grad job with a very high starting salary (I had more than one offer, too). And again, I’m not a stand-out in the graduating class.</p>

<p>3) I personally have never had a problem with reputation. Not in St. Louis for internships, not back home for research at another university, and not in the Bay where I am now in my post-graduation career. The only people who didn’t know WashU were people who didn’t matter to my future anyway.
Regarding St Louis – I quite liked it. My only complaint is the weather really – summers are too hot and I just don’t like snow.
For the record, most people haven’t heard of half the ivies anyway.</p>

<p>4) I don’t know. Maybe it’s because I went to high school in another notoriously “dangerous” city, but I find all the “omg StL is so dangerous!!!” comments to be ridiculous. Yes there is crime here, but the majority of the crime near campus is crimes of opportunities. Seriously – what are you expecting to happen when you let complete strangers into your car? Also, the shooting that happened on Delmar was drug/gang related, not connected to WashU, and police patrol has skyrocketed since then. I have never once felt unsafe on the loop, but that may just be my experiences from sketchier cities.</p>

<p>5) Yeah food is expensive; I’ll give you that one. I’ve never had a problem with serving size though? May be due to the fact that I’m small and female though.</p>

<p>6) The general consensus is that the math department is actually incredible… once you get out of the intro sequence courses. I’m sure MarcDVL (a math major) can comment on more specifics if he wants, but I’m a bit unqualified.<br>
Just for my perspective though, of the classes I had in the math department (Calc 2, 3, and DiffEQ), I quite enjoyed 2 of the 3 professors. Granted, Jack Shapiro (who I had for 2), is quite frankly the worst professor I ever had in my time at WashU.</p>

<p>7) That’s the Midwest for you.</p>

3

<p>Also very important to note: TheFallenOne is not (yet) a US citizen. That makes the job/internship search in the US much more difficult. And it’s something that needs to be noted in this thread.</p>

<p>The only internationals I know who have had an “easy” time getting a job were engineering students who did a co-op because that’s a bit of a different game.</p>

4

<p>I just want to preface this by saying that TheFallenOne isn’t wrong, per se. While many of my personal experiences do not support many of his conclusions, that does not make my opinions any more valid than his. Thus, here is my input on the subjects raised.</p>

<p>It seems as though many students consider the administration at washu quite helpful, and their placement rates are very high. I haven’t had any personal experiences, so I can’t say anything for sure.</p>

<p>Along that line, I agree washu’s reputation is pretty bad among the general public. However, good placement rates indicate that employers/grad schools know who washu is.</p>

<p>I consider myself an athlete, and I personally haven’t had any concerns over the portion sizes, or their cost.</p>

<p>Tuition is high, yes.</p>

<p>My friends and I have had no problems with crime. I’ve felt quite safe on and around campus, personally.</p>

<p>I’ve been disappointed with the math department myself. It’s not that bad, but it’s not as good as it could be.</p>

<p>The weather doesn’t bother me. Sure I’m from the Midwest, but it’s generally reasonable for the season.</p>

5

<p>Johnson181, how is a US citizenship of any relevance to a job search? Most applications don’t even ask that.</p>

6

<p>I don’t know which jobs you’ve applied for, but almost every single application I’ve filled out has asked for citizenship status.</p>

7

<p>If they do, they put Permanent Resident and Citizen as one option. How would they distinguish which I am? I could be born in US.</p>

<p>I actually wasn’t, but I grew up here, and it’s the only country I ever really got to know.</p>

8

<p>It isn’t WUSTL’s goal to get you a job. There is basically no school in the country where you can do poorly, interview poorly, and still get a great job. Perhaps a “bigger” name helps right out of college, but in the long run it is the education you have received and the skills you have acquired, and how well you are able to apply these skills, that will determine your success. Don’t just blame WUSTL; as evidenced by the statistics provided, it is WELL within your power to go to WUSTL and be successful.</p>

9

<p>Not affiliated with WashU, so I can’t comment on that. However, I’ve lived in St. Louis my whole life, so I do have connections to the school and know the area.</p>

<p>It might be because you’re an international, but the reputation regarding safety is heavily exaggerated. St. Louis as a whole is ranked high in crime because of it’s geography (separation from the suburbs surrounding it) and the fact that East St. Louis (which is over the Mississippi side into Illinois) is always looked when statistics are taking into account. East St. Louis has a higher crime rate than any part of actual St. Louis, so it skews data.</p>

<p>WashU as a whole is located in one of the wealthiest parts of town. It is a few minutes away from bad areas, but the immediate area directly around the university consists of multimillion dollar neighborhoods. While I wouldn’t walk around Forest Park at night by myself, I never feel unsafe walking around the Central West End/Delmar Loop. You just have to make wise decisions and you’ll be fine.</p>

10

<p>Rising Sophomore…
Thefallenone, are you a permanent resident, if you are then you are right it does not matter but if you are on a non working visa then that might have a lot to do with it.
My brother graduated from VT with a degree of ChemEng and Math. It took him 8 months to get a job and that was more luck than anything else. One big thing he did not do in college was internship, Co-op, or research. Did you do that? If you did, then you might have done your best and your best was not just enough. But do not give up. It is not 100% guaranteed to get a job if you go to a prestigious school.

  1. How much scholarship did you get? The cost at washu is competitive with other prestigious schools which is a lot. But that was a decision made about 3 years ago by you. You could have transfered a year after if you had buyers remorse. If you were not satisfied with the service, you or your parents could have brought up the issues to the proper channels. Do not come to Washu if you will owe a lot of money when you graduate like more than 40K.
  2. Washu is tough academics. Do not come to Washu if you expect a 4.0 GPA. You do have to work and study hard to excel. And there is lot of assistance available, you just need to ask. You will fail if you let yourself fail.
  3. Reputation. If the location was bad and the brand name was bad, why did you come in the first place.
  4. Dangerous. Thats what I heard too. But I took the chance and found out it was exaggerated. Really it is the location within the city and how street smart you are. St Louis is a vast area. Stay away from the bad areas just like any other big cities. And if something still happens to you or around you, thats just bad luck.
    Food is expensive oh well. Math department, no idea. Weather, i think most prestigious school are in the cold regions. There are worst weather conditions. Cant control it. Personally, I like Washu but I probably hate it later when I do not have a job right after graduation. And I would hate me too if I did not do my best to be one of the most qualified graduates.</p>
11

<p>TheFallenOne, what exactly are you doing this summer? It’s easy to get discouraged but that won’t help you get a job in the future. There are always things you can be doing to network and build connections that can help you for next summer after you graduate.</p>

<p>Also, I highly recommend you pick up Meg Jay’s book, The Defining Decade. You may roll your eyes, especially if you’re not a big reader, but the book is extremely relevant to what you’ve mentioned here and I think reading it would do you a lot of good.</p>

12

<p>I have a permanent resident and visa. Doesn’t that suffice?</p>

<p>Is a citizenship really that important?</p>

13

<p>OP, you need to do a couple of things. First, positive attitude. Second, positive attitude. Third… well I won’t repeat, but I would start changing my direction by choosing a different screen name :wink: Even in the best of times, the first job is very hard to come by. FWIW, my neighbor’s kid who graduated from Harvard had a hard time to find her first professional position. Get a job this summer, if you don’t have one yet. Any job is better than no job, including flipping hamburger at McDonald. I was an international going to college in small town midwest. The town had one McDonald and that’s about it. I applied a summer job there and they required… 3.5 GPA. I kid you not. During the school year, try to get a paying job if you can, even if it’s minimum wage. If it’s for nothing, it proves to your future employers that you can handle authority and can function in an adult environment. Most importantly, be positive. After all, you have nothing to show the world but a (standard) education and attitude.</p>

14

<p>Potentially the most ridiculous thread I have ever seen in any forum.</p>

<p>1) High tuition. Of course you are going to pay high tuition at a private university. Have you seen the cost that other students pay for similar-tier colleges? </p>

<p>2) Too much work for too little results? I’m not sure which school you’re in (B-School, is what I can glean from this) but you’re definitely not doing it right. I’m a pre-med with a 3.7 and I go out 3 times a week. Minimum. I’m not near the top of the curve with regards to my science classes but I’m still doing fine. You A) either haven’t learned what the internet is and how it can help you study or B) haven’t yet determined how to read because let’s get real… it’s the B-school…</p>

<p>3) Nothing to add, absolutely incorrect.</p>

<p>4) I’m not sure which school you go to but WashU’s in Clayton. How many run-in’s with thugs do you have a year because I have approximately 0. Furthermore, judging by your lack of social acumen, it doesn’t sound like you’re really going out to explore the city either thus diminishing further your chances of “getting mugged”. </p>

<p>5) OH MY GOD. WashU certainly has things to improve but the FOOD? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Without fail, we get ranked top 5 in the nation (1st this year IIRC) for lifestyle and food. Maybe you eat at the pizza station everyday in the DUC but you are so, so wrong. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>True, Math department should definitely be worked on. </p></li>
<li><p>You’re citing weather as a reason not to come to WashU? Really? </p></li>
</ol>

<p>You need to either join an organization that’ll allow you to meet friends or just graduate early. Too late for Greek (and frankly, you won’t be getting any bids with that attitude) so try and reconnect with your freshman floor or something.</p>

15

<p>The B-school’s career services aren’t as good as anyone claims. Maybe they just say that because they rarely visit them and got jobs through other means besides school recruiting. They got nice personalities, yes, but that hardly makes them qualified. </p>

<p>Given my situation, I have visited the career advisors many times. Each time they never tell me anything useful, and that it’ll all be fine. It’s not going to be fine, especially when no one except me is deducing why I’m in this situation. It’s the advisors’ job to help me and none of them have done that. In fact, the advice the gave me turned out to HURT my chances instead. I should seriously sue them for blatantly not doing their jobs and hindering my job search instead of helping like they should.</p>

<p>How can I change my attitude when I’ll never have a job? If you’re in my situation, let’s see how you react.</p>

16

<p>FallenOne: I tend to agree with others. You should have transferred to another school. However, my guess is that you would find fault with another school, as well. My son just graduated from WUSTL without a job, but this is the consequence of his action (inaction). He is a liberal arts major with some decent internship experience in marketing. It was only at the end of his senior year that he got serious about a job. The Career Center sent an email to parents of graduating seniors that encouraged those without jobs to continue working with them. That is what my son is doing. The Career Center has been very helpful-- working with him on his resume, identifying opportunities, and giving him some networking ideas. He has remained in St. Louis and continues to meet with his adviser on a routine basis. Although it can be discouraging, you need to really develop some persistence and fortitude. It is a tough market out there and not all of your problems can be blamed on WUSTL. Think seriously about what is going to make you more marketable.</p>

17

<p>purpleperk, I’m sure you’re an intelligent young future doctor, but your post only serves to make you appear immature rather than actually helping.</p>

<p>TheFallenOne, the onus of you obtaining a job falls not on the career advisors, but rather on yourself. Even if they are as incompetent as you say (which I personally doubt), it is hardly their fault if you do not obtain a job. You’ve received a lot of advice in this thread already, and becoming discouraged and resentful will hardly help your prospects. I wish you the absolute best of luck in your search, and hope that everything works out as well as possible.</p>

18

<p>TheFallenOne, did you attend Junior Jumpstart?</p>

19

<p>This thread is very similar to one where a student listed all the bad points about Johns Hopkins. Needless to say, most everybody disagreed with that original poster, and I’m sure that most everybody will disagree with this poster as well. No school is ever going to satisfy 100% of its students. Sorry to hear about the OP’s struggles, but if the intent is to dissuade other students from applying to WUSTL, I think that the end result will be failure.</p>

20

<p>Ops
You have to change your attitude for you to get a job. Regardless what the career service did to hurt your chances, the ultimate responsiblity still falls on you Fallen One. Rise up to the challenges that made you fall and become the Risen One. Why dont you grab some self help books or speak with a motivational person. Employers do not read the resume or cover letter of the career services, nor do they interview them. The employers read your cover letter to decide to read your resume. Your resume gets you the interview and the interview gets you the job. Graduating from Washu or other prestigious schools may help catch the eye of the employer but that wont get you the job. It is your degree, knowledge, skills, and abilities that will get you the interview. What happens at the interview is what will seal the deal. If you show a “B” personality, bad interviewee skills, unintelligent conversationist, and other negative personality skills, then you just lost the job specially in a business position interview. You are not too late in the game. As far as I know, you still have a year left before graduation. I do hope you are doing something this summer and have something during your senior year (intern, research, senior project, co-op, leadership or team position). Did you take that gig down south?
Lastly, being a US citizen does give you points. You have to be a citizen to work for the federal government, some business institutions requires some kind of clearance where you have to be a citizen. So all jobs out there are not available to you. If you plan on staying in the US, you should work to obtain that citizenship asap. Are you not eligible for it?</p>