LAC with Merit - update

Hi all! I’m re-opening this thread with an update, having just completed another admission cycle for S23. He had the same budget, also had very high stats (class val, 3.99 UW/4.7W, 1530 SAT, great ECs), and applied to some of the same schools as D21.

Here’s what I’ve seen happen in just two years: merit aid continues to decrease at the upper tier schools (the T20ish to T50ish LACs) as the more selective schools continue their pivot away from merit and instead toward more need-based aid.

(And while this thread is about LACs, the same applies to top state flagship publics as well, which have gotten more and more competitive and so don’t need to give out as much merit to attract top students. Auto-merit scholarships seem to get less and less generous each year at just about every school I know of other than Alabama.)

OTOH, the lower ranked LACs are increasingly desperate for students as the ‘demographic cliff’ looms and are still playing the merit game in a big way. I’d recommend looking pretty closely at any these schools’ financial health and enrollment trends before committing, though, especially if they’re a small (less than 2K enrollment) LAC. Many of the smaller, lower-ranked schools are cutting and/or merging departments and majors as their #s shrink, and pretty soon many of them will no longer be financially viable.

So, for anyone looking for merit $ for the class of 2024 and beyond, know that any posts more than a few years old are really outdated and probably no longer applicable. Same with the Common Data Sets. They are still useful, but I recommend looking no further back than about 2021-22ish and even then proceed with caution. Look instead to the school websites, which should have the most updated info, and don’t be shy about asking AOs directly.

Having said all that, there is still plenty of merit out there at great schools. Just be prepared to cast a wide net and work really hard looking for it.

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I had a son in the 2021 cycle and now a daughter in the current 2023 cycle. We didn’t really understand how to chase merit during his application process. It worked out because he got into good UC schools, but otherwise he mainly applied to a lot of highly selective schools that would have been full-pay for us, and we didn’t fully investigate how that all worked ahead of time – have approached things completely differently this go-round, and she could only apply to in-state schools in CA plus privates that offer a good chance at significant tuition-discounting via merit.

At what ranking do you start to worry about a LAC potentially folding? She’s applied RD-only (no EA applications), but she’s already starting to hear back from some schools, including with offers of significant merit. In the end I think we’re still hoping for her to get into a good UC school, but if a school like Lewis & Clark really will only cost us the same as a UC and she decides she’d like a smaller-school environment…then maybe it should actually get consideration.

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Yes it should.

A UC is no guarantee if a better outcome. In fact no school is.

While it may sound better on paper, she will be there four years - day after day.

She should choose the right fit. Too many go for the ‘pedigree’ but if it’s not the right fit for them then what’s the point.

A UC degree is no more a guarantee than any other degree.

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To judge financial viability of private schools, I always look at their endowment amount and the bond rating that Moody assigns them. You want the bond rating to be an A or B. Anything below this would make me do a lot more digging into the school’s finances.

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I worry less about the ranking and more about the finances. Forbes also has a financial health grading system for private colleges which is one way to get a quick look: The Strongest And Weakest Colleges In America — Behind Forbes 2022 Financial Grades. And the grades are not correlated with USNWR ranks. For instance, Fisk and Hampden-Sydney both have an A- financial health grade, while U. of Richmond and Santa Clara have a B. Additionally, I’d try and pull multiple years’ worth of data to see in which direction the school is trending.

In the thread about closing schools (Rest in Peace: College Closings), I think some of the general thoughts have been to take a close look at the finances of schools with an endowment of less than $100 million (not to necessarily eliminate them, but to take a close look).

Those would be two ways that I’d start to get a better sense of the institution’s future, at least for the amount of time that my kid would be in school.

Also, Jeff Selingo’s list of college buyers and sellers would be an interesting data point to consider as well. If a school is an extreme buyer (i.e. really big discounts for the majority of its students), and it doesn’t have a good financial health grade or a not so big endowment, then alarm bells would probably start going off.

All in all, I probably wouldn’t look at any one factor in isolation, but try and get a more global sense of what direction the school is heading in.

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We looked closely at the Forbes list that @AustenNut linked above. And while rankings/selectivity are generally highly correlated to financial health (both endowment/operating costs and stable enrollment), there are outliers on either end.

Some larger, highly ranked schools are on surprisingly shaky financial ground, while some smaller, regional LACs are thriving due to a variety of reasons (niche programming, an ‘angel’ donor, especially strong alumni network for both development and recruiting, etc.)

Re: enrollment, I recommend asking on tours or info sessions about whether the recent classes have ‘filled’, whether there are any unoccupied dorm rooms, etc. The NACAC list is also a good resource: College Openings Update - National Association for College Admission Counseling (NACAC). And while I wouldn’t completely rule out a school that didn’t fill in the last two years (we didn’t for S23 – one of his top final choices fell into this category), that warrants an extra careful look at the school’s financial ranking on the Forbes list.

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Wow! This is a really useful tool – thank you. As is the Forbes list. Thanks to both you and to @upnorth2019 for thoughtful responses. Very helpful. Feels to me like the schools where she’s getting admitted with merit are not likely on the chopping block for closing in the near future, but obviously they aren’t schools with A ratings since they are more buyers than sellers. A lot of important considerations. I think for now I’m feeling grateful that she’ll have quite different options (small LAC, large in-state), both of which are affordable. We have one more kid coming along much later, and I’ll be so interested to see how things shake out 7 years from now. I’m sure quite a few colleges will have closed or merged by then.

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Well, if you look at the 9 criteria items, I’m not sure that the Forbes list is any more definite about “Financial Health”, than the USNews list is about educational “quality”.

There are certainly items that are good to know about a college when assessing whether they’ll comfortably last the next 5 years - but as a “hitparade” comparing college “A” vs. “B”, it’s designed to be an attention grabber, just like the USNews list.

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A vs. B, yes. But a D school for finances? I would definitely investigate more. Schools in the D range for financial health include:

  • Sarah Lawrence
  • Wentworth
  • Pacific Lutheran
  • Clarkson
  • RPI
  • Suffolk
  • Merrimack
  • Florida Tech

Again, I wouldn’t take a D in isolation as a dealbreaker, but I’d definitely be doing a much closer investigation with those.

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Wow! Two schools that are quite popular. Drexel is C- and Elon is C.

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Certainly.
I would investigate any college I would consider, for many facets of suitability.

That’s my point, it’s not really a “D for finances”…

It’s a D for a mingled set of criteria, that include “Percent of Freshmen Getting Grant Aid”, “Instruction Expenses per FTE”, “Admissions Yield”, “Minimum 23% ROI” (!?)…

Even some more palatable factors, such as “Tuition as a Percentage of Core Revenues” and “Endowment Assets per FTE” are interesting, but more in a “Trivial Pursuits” sense, not in a “ranking” sense.
At the end, the deciding factor isn’t how much of college X’s revenue comes from endowments, as long as it is a highly selective college that people are literally begging to be allowed to pay in full, year after year, decade after decade.

Is there a guarantee that the same tuition income will be there 5 years from now. No? But neither is there a guarantee that donations will be…

Which, again, tells you that those “letter grades” are not helpful in the context that they are marketed by Forbes. These hitparades are designed to cause "Wow!"s - not to inform.

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Moody’s B rating probably is not good news. See https://www.moodys.com/sites/products/productattachments/ap075378_1_1408_ki.pdf for Moody’s bond ratings. Aaa, Aa, A, Baa are “investment grade”, while Ba, B, Caa, Ca, C are “not investment grade” (“junk”) with higher risk of default.

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The fact that a school (Richmond) with a $3.2 billion endowment for 4,300 students and a relatively high percentage of full-pay, no merit undergraduate students receives a B suggests that the grades should be taken with a serious dose of salt.

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Are you talking about bond ratings?

Or something else. For example, RPI is solid investment grade - A3 Moody’s, BBB+ S&P.

Clarkson a BAA1 Moody’s…but still solid.

I was talking about the Forbes financial health grades, linked in post #5 (and quoted here for convenience :slight_smile: ).

Ahhhhhhh - ok. Just making sure.

I certainly don’t think of schools like RPI and Clarkson when I think bad financially - but like everything - there’s a criteria.

Makes sense.

Thanks

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Florida tech has only been in existence since 1958, and was a pretty small school for 20 years or so. All of its buildings are fairly new,which means most of the buildings have mortgages on them, and Forbes doesn’t like that when determining the grades. Many of the alums that graduated in the 60’s and 70’s, and even 80’s, are just getting to retirement and thinking about donating to to the school.

I found the financial aid to be very very generous and my daughter never had any problems getting services, books, lab equipment, etc.

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I think I might be do a deeper dive into the “achievers” - the schools whose grades improved thanks to the injection of govt funds due to covid. Is that what is keeping them afloat? Would they have closed otherwise?

Here is another resource for financial information, based on Department of Education criteria: Federal Student Aid.

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Specifically which of the 9 criteria do you find troubling? As a guy who has spent time around credit committees, several of them seem spot on.

Edit: Ok, I saw your response later in the thread.