Lack of Undergraduate Focus?

<p>I was recently accepted at both UChicago and Williams. I really love both schools, but I find UChicago's unique culture especially appealing. However, the criterion that will be guiding my decision will ultimately be the educational experience.
I've heard that since UChicago has so many more graduate students than undergraduate students, there is less of a focus on undergraduate students, whether in terms of research opportunities, professors etc. So, UChicago would be better for grad than undergrad. Can anybody tell me if this is true or not?</p>

<p>Not at all, UChicago is really great for undergrad and having excellent grad schools here doesn’t hinder that. All your civ/sosc/hum core classes are under 20 students- my world lit class was 9 students and the professor was absolutely amazing- if you’re looking for real education, then this place lives up to the hype for the most part. Professors always like students going to their office hours, and finding research here even as a 1st year is very possible if you have the skills the prof. wants. feel free to pm me if you have an questions.</p>

<p>In the past, the graduate schools were the focus. In fact, the college was near meaningless early in history. The history of the College is quite interesting.</p>

<p>Over time, the College has developed immensely and now it is THE defining feature of the University of Chicago. The undergraduate College is what gives UChicago its character. There is a reason why professors are scrambling over each other for chances to teach the Core classes. If you want me to expand on why/how there is an undergraduate focus/love, let me know. But just know that the college is what makes the University of Chicago and the administration and professors know and embrace that.</p>

<p>Just to reaffirm what Seahawks and sa0209 said, the undergraduate education here is really awesome. I know lots of first-years who are working in labs & with professors. One of my friends is a first-year research assistant working under Steve Levitt, and I don’t think he’s even taken an econ course yet haha.</p>

<p>UChicago focuses plenty on its undergraduate population.</p>

<p>Whether or not it’s “better” for grad school depends on the department and faculty.</p>

<p>sa209:</p>

<p>Could you expand on why/how there is a big undergraduate focus/love? I’m curious to hear your thoughts. I imagine the balance between the College and the grad schools has become more even, but I’m not sure if the College is now “THE defining feature” for the university. Please do elaborate, though.</p>

<p>I’ve seen some comments from grad students complaining that the College is getting all the attention these days. For instance, the law schools students were kicked out of New Graduate Residence Hall to clear up room for more undergraduate housing…</p>

<p>Anyway, UChicago has long had the best undergraduate education in the country, with the Common Core surviving from the ol’ Great Books days.</p>

<p>Willams and the University of Chicago represent stellar exemplars of two radically different, but probably equally effective, approaches to undergraduate education. You pretty much can’t go wrong either way. The vast majority of good students would do equally well under both systems, while some would hate one and thrive under the other, or vice versa. I don’t think anyone could possibly prove that one was objectively better than the other.</p>

<p>From my standpoint, as an alumnus of a university much like the University of Chicago, and as the parent of two recent Chicago graduates, I think the presence of graduate students enhances the educational experience of undergraduates. Chicago’s graduate programs are first rate, and the graduate students are excellent scholars. They can be of enormous assistance to undergraduates, helping them bridge the gap between what they know and where their professors are operating, on the cutting edge of their fields. They are interesting people, with interesting ideas in their own rights. Their presence expands algebraically the volume of intellectual activity and discussion within any particular department. Professors who want to do cutting-edge work need to be in a program that attracts great graduate students, and undergraduates are the beneficiaries of that. Undergraduates are still able to have close, meaningful relationships with faculty.</p>

<p>Williams, on the other hand, has far fewer faculty, but they are completely focused on their undergraduate students. Chicago students can avoid close relationships with faculty if they choose; it’s harder to do that at Williams. Williams faculty have to teach at a broader level than their own particular focus, and so they take responsibility for making certain that all their students have a broad base of knowledge. That’s not always true at Chicago, where students can take courses that are more advanced and more in depth than those at Williams, but they may have to take responsibility themselves for making certain that there are no gaps in their basic knowledge, above the Subject 101 level, because no faculty member is going to do that for them.</p>

<p>Ultimately, whether you are at Chicago or at Williams, you are probably really going to have close, important relationships with 1-3 faculty members. At Chicago, you will choose them from a big pool; at Williams, the pool will be much smaller, and in some departments they may constitute the entire departmental faculty, and you won’t have any choice at all. But that doesn’t mean you will learn less, or that the relationship will be less valuable. What you won’t get at Williams, however, is contact with some super smart, super focused students only a few years older than you who are fully engaged in a field you are just beginning to learn about.</p>

<p>Also, there’s the whole thing of Chicago IL vs. Williamstown MA. You are right to focus on educational experience, but those are two really different places to hang out. You are certain to like one more than the other.</p>

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<p>Just highlighting this, because I think it’s important, esp. if you plan on going into academia. I’ve found that the majority of my most meaningful relationships here have been with grad students; they’ve served as excellent mentors and friends to me, more so than a lot of the undergraduate population. Many of them aren’t so far off from their undergraduate years, so you can speak frankly with them on a lot of topics that you can’t with faculty, and their experiences can help you get through some tough times.</p>

<p>JHS, agreed that the presence of graduate students helps. There are english PHD students that can help you edit and give advice on your humanities papers (and I think sosc too) and they’re very helpful!</p>

<p>Last year, my college decision came down to Williams and UChicago as well, and I ultimately decided on UChicago for a variety of reasons outside of focus on undergraduate education/experience. If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me (that said, it would probably help to also contact someone who chose Williams instead)! :)</p>

<p>Wow, a big thank you to everyone for the in-depth, thoughtful reasons!</p>

<p>And on an unrelated note: how cold is cold in Chicago? I live in New York, so it’s not like I am unable to handle a few storms. However, my friend who goes to UChicago says that it is FREEZING there, much much worse than New England weather, that even her winter coats are no good against the Chicagoan winter wind brutality.
I realize it is a little silly to be considering the temperature in my college decisions, but it really has come down to these small details for me.
True? False? Advice?</p>

<p>I lived in Georgia for 17 years before going to Chicago.</p>

<p>Trust me, you’ll be fine. :P</p>

<p>Everyone I know survived the cold, even the people who hadn’t seen snow before. Something that is wind resistant is pretty necessary though… And hats. So many hats. You get used to it, and then it’s not a big deal.</p>

<p>down jacket with a hood and some snow boots and you will survive. im from the south and im still alive</p>