LACs for ST(E)M majors?

Parents Forum
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<p>Thanks for all of the great suggestions. RPI, Case, and WUSTL are all on his short list. He has visited and liked them all. Yes, 1214mom, my D was torn between RPI and WPI. She liked both very much but ended up at WPI and absolutely loves it. Our experience was that RPI was a little more generous, even accounting for the difference in COA. </p>

<p>Interestingly, S was not thrilled by CMU when he visited. He was so turned off by the admissions session that he didn’t want to stay for the tour. He felt that there wasn’t enough flexibility to move between schools if one wanted to change majors; that type of flexibility seems to be important to him. I found his reaction surprising, but since it was about 104 degrees out that day, I didn’t think it was worth arguing!</p>

<p>UCB - you bring up some good points and S would need to research carefully to make sure that there were enough appropriate advanced courses. He is taking a proof based math course online this summer. It will be interesting to see how that goes. I’m happy to hear that several similar students have had good experiences at LACs, though. All things being equal, I have no idea which type of school S would choose, but he does have a lot of broad interests both within and outside of STEM subjects. My hope is that he will have at least a few affordable options to choose from.</p>

<p>Thanks again for all of the great suggestions. Lots of schools for S to research!</p>

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<p>We also had a problem with CMU because it seems very hard to change majors there.
Glad our daughter is happy at WPI.</p>

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<p>Not an LAC but U of Rochester is a strong science school that is more than a tech school. It is a small research university. Great merit aid and plenty of happy students. They also have engineering if he bends back that way.</p>

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<p>Some potential majors can be checked in the course catalog.</p>

<p>For physics, look for upper division physics courses in the following:

  • quantum mechanics (typically 2 semesters)
  • electromagnetism (typically 2 semesters)
  • advanced lab (typically 2 semesters)
  • advanced mechanics
  • statistical and thermal physics
  • electives like astrophysics, plasma physics, atomic physics, etc.</p>

<p>For computer science, look for upper division computer science courses in the following:

<p>For chemistry, you can check for [ACS</a> approval](<a href=“Committee on Professional Training - American Chemical Society”>Committee on Professional Training - American Chemical Society), though checking the catalog for course offerings to see what subareas are emphasized would also be a good thing to do.</p>

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<p>If you’re so inclined to head South, I would also suggest Vanderbilt. We currently have a friend there who is studying Math/Physics and was rejected by Harvey Mudd. He loves it, but the culture takes a bit of getting used to! (Shirts & ties at football games! :eek:)</p>

<p>I second Swarthmore/Haverford and also Univ. of Rochester and WUSTL
We also know a very happy kid who just graduated from Case in Engineering</p>

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<p>Not to go OT, but H and I both graduated from WPI. It’s changed a lot since the 80’s, though. And I couldn’t get my D (elem. ed. major) to even set foot on the UNH campus! She thought it would be like 4 more years of HS. It was interesting with her, since she’s so different from her parents. She doesn’t even like math–sacrilege! I think that’s why I emphasize finding your tribe. </p>

<p>You’ve gotten some great suggestions–now it’s time to fire up the computer and the car, and take a look.</p>

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<p>He won’t hit a ceiling in math at a LAC. They have plenty of courses for the advanced student. Try Lafayette. With those stats he may be eligible for a Marquis scholarship.</p>

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<p>Swarthmore only has 1 merit scholarship. Univ. of Rochester has generous merit aid. I would classify UofR as a LAC in spirit.</p>

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<p>I don’t think it’s actually that hard to change majors at CMU, but because of the division into separate schools there is an extra hurdle and certain majors like CS which are harder to get into in the first place are still hard. i.e. “It’s easy to get into CS once you are there you just have to get A’s in the foundation courses.” That said, it seems to be easy to minor in just about anything and there have been interviews with professors that they say there is a culture of more collaboration than there was at some of the Ivy League schools they came from.</p>

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<p>University of AL. With 35 ACT and 3.5 GPA, student will qualify for the Presidential Scholar for full tuition for 4 years.</p>

<p>[Out-of-State</a> Scholarships - Undergraduate Scholarships - The University of Alabama](<a href=“http://scholarships.ua.edu/types/out_of_state.html]Out-of-State”>http://scholarships.ua.edu/types/out_of_state.html)</p>

<p>In addition, I think there is a $2,500/yr engineering scholarship (computer science).</p>

<p>Net cost of attendance (room/board) is about $12,000/yr.</p>

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<p>This is not true. There are a significant number of people at top math schools that take multiple graduate courses as undergraduates. These do not exist at LACs, with exceptions being at places like Williams, Swarthmore, and Harvey Mudd. Of course, most people don’t need to be super advanced, and if you are there are ways to get around it through independent studies, study abroad programs, and cross registration at nearby universities. But in general, it is not hard to hit a ceiling in math at LACs</p>

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<p>Swarthmore seems to think that its students have trouble getting into top math PhD programs:
<a href=“http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/academics/math/grad_GRE/MathGradSchool.pdf[/url]”>http://www.swarthmore.edu/Documents/academics/math/grad_GRE/MathGradSchool.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Not technically a LAC, but you may want to consider Wake Forest if you’re looking southwards.</p>

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<p>

That’s not what I got from the document. IMO they were being realistic about chances of getting into a program and showing what needed to be done (take challenging courses, get a high GRE). They specifically state:

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<p>Yes, but that paragraph is about science and engineering in general. Other paragraphs (indeed, the presence of this document) indicate that they see a problem in math specifically (not other science and engineering fields):</p>

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<p>Not sure if you are interested in the South but what about Davidson and Furman, both smaller and have top-notch science and math programs. It is a bit of a departure from the other suggestions.</p>

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<p>RE: CMU - it is indeed extremely difficult to switch into certain programs, the School of Computer Science being one of them. It is also difficult to switch into engineering or business from other colleges/schools within the university such as the College of Science. We asked this question multiple times to as many people as possible when we were on campus as my son was undecided between CS and a few engineering disciplines. We did not like the answers one of which was “it isn’t impossible”.</p>

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<p>Wow - lots of food for thought about both specific schools and things to look for with available courses, particularly with a math major. </p>

<p>OperaDad - yes, 'Bama is already on his list and is very affordable. I forgot to mention it with stats, but his unweighted GPA is 3.9+ so he should qualify for one of their scholarships. UA is one of the schools he’d really like to visit. Smart kid - feels very strongly about visiting potential safeties. He has already visited Pitt and Northeastern and likes both. Off topic, but Pitt was an unplanned visit on the trip where he saw CMU. We walked right through Pitt’s campus on the way to CMU. He stopped in at Pitt’s admissions office just to pick up some info and was invited to sit in on a small admissions session for prospective honors students that was about to begin. </p>

<p>In asking about LACs and merit, I was thinking about the benefits of being in a smaller community where students more easily develop close relationships with faculty and each other. Reading all of the suggestions is making me wonder if an honors college at a larger university (with a decent graduate math department) might achieve similar goals. Clearly schools like Case, WPI, RPI, and maybe Rochester (need to look at it more) are also good choices since they have high level UG courses as well as grad courses in the fields he’s interested in and he is likely to get enough merit from them to make them affordable (based on D1’s experience and running the NPC with merit). Will also look into Lafeyette.</p>

<p>ETA: Location isn’t much of an issue, though would prefer a school with relatively easy access to an airport if far away. Unlike his older sister, S doesn’t seem to mind the thought of going to school in another part of the country. Not sure about Vandy, though. Great school but I don’t see him embracing wearing a shirt and tie to a football game - if he would even go to the game. That was his biggest complaint about Notre Dame - too much emphasis on football from the tour guide!</p>

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<p>If he majors in math, he will likely find a smaller community of math majors immediately, even at a big university, given that he has already passed the usual big lower division courses while still in high school.</p>

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<p>Rhodes, Rochester, Oberlin, Lafayette.</p>