<p>Just read the feature thread in high school life started by Roger_Dooley and wonder what the parents perspective is. Your thoughts? </p>
<p>Robinson Good--</p>
<p>Large number of course offerings;
Winning football</p>
<p>Robinson bad--
Grades 7-12;
Two words--roller skates.</p>
<p>my daughter attended a K-12 public school with about 50 students per grade from 3rd-8th grade.
She switched for high school because she wanted the larger course selection and other offerings of a comprehensive school. ( 1600 students)
I think 1000 - 1500 is probably an optimum size for many kids
plenty of ability to have a variety of class offerings, sport teams, and clubs, but not so large that it is difficult for departments to work together or impossible for the school or even a whole class to meet at the same time.</p>
<p>Her school has 11 full time science teachers- teaching anything from ecology to AP chem and has both algebra and calculus based physics classes.
I don't think doubling or tripling the size of the school could add anything-
to fill a school of 4000- 5000 students- how far away do kids have to travel? how long does that take and how much does it cost?
How easy is it then for their parents to participate in activities after school?
Are they able to be on the school teams/clubs they want to partipate in?</p>
<p>Our high school has about 1800+ students (down from over 2,000 a few years ago). It is divided into 4 small learning communities. This seems to me to work well. Together with other parents, I resisted the move to split the school into 4 or 5 totally autonomous schools, each with their different character. The current setup seems to me to offer a wide enough array of choice to as many students as possible. The school has only 2 Latin teachers. Had it split into 4 different schools, Latin would not have been offered at 3 out of the 4 schools. Ditto many of the AP classes and arts offerings. Since the school did not move toward totally independent smaller ones, it had to turn down the Gates grant that was being offered.
3 or 4,000, however, seems excessively large.</p>
<p>My first two kids went to 2500+ high school. The next two went to a small private high school of about 300. I'd pick the small one every time. Every teacher knows every kid and classes are small. Kids have more chances to participate in sports, musicals, etc. Families get to know each other. Expensive, but well worth the sacrifice.</p>
<p>I went to a manageably sized high school (about 300 people per graduating class). I liked the size because it gave you a lot of choices for courses, activities, and friends. I now teach in a school district that has two BIG high schools. (2000+) Travel is not an issue because we're right outside of an urban area and it's densely populated. I interact with a lot of the students at these schools through my job. I have found that there are positives and negatives. The positives have to be the amount of classes and services provided. If you want to study it or participate in it, it's offered. There are so many kids that most everyone can find a place to fit in. </p>
<p>The drawback I see is getting lost in the crowd. The two schools are SO large that not everyone can participate in what they want. An average basketball player is not going to make the team. Many students don't get the opportunity to play sports, participate in theater productions, etc. because the competition is so great. I think this serves our students who are headed to competitive environments well. They learn that they won't always win and learn how to compete. However, kids without outstanding skills or talents tend to miss out on shining more than in a smaller school. I suppose it's the same debate as a large university vs. smaller college.</p>
<p>Marite -</p>
<p>Interesting concept at the HS. Getting instruction in Latin has a whole set of challenges, or at least it did for my D. She had five different teachers in grades 6 though 9, and finally resigned to attempt Spanish as a Sophomore.</p>
<p>Dudedad:</p>
<p>When SLCs were originally set up, assignment to them was controlled by a variety of factors, including choice of language. The idea was that each of the SLCs would have similar populations in terms of size, ethnicity, gender, SES.<br>
Students would have to take courses within their SLC only in the first couple of grades in order to build a sense of community; thereafter, they would be able to take courses across SLCs, since there were not enough students and teachers to have a full slate of APs in each SLC. But it turned out that the academically stronger students were signing up for Latin and so the SLCs were in danger of becoming academically (and ethnically) self-segregated again (as they had in the past-- the reason for the restructuring). So students in any of the SLCs are now allowed to take Latin or some of the less popular languages that are taught.
Because of his unusual schedule, my S had teachers from all the SLCs. But he had the same GC and SLC dean through all 3 years. An important thing was that the classes were capped at 30. In fact, many of his classes had fewer than 20 students. Class size is as important a factor as school size.
My S found Latin fun; it appealed to his logical mind. With only Latin 3, he tested out of the foreign language requirement for which you needed the equivalent of 600 on the SAT-II. I was impressed. He did have a good teacher.</p>
<p>I posted on the other thread, but I had something to add about sports. My school is large (4000 +) and we dominate most sports. In fact, we won a record number of state titles last year. I know a girl who is being recruited from Div. 1 schools for track who is not even on varsity. This is why I quit cross-country -- way too competitive. I am used to being one of the best academically, and if you aren't a gifted or highly trained athlete it is not possible to stand out in sports at my school.</p>
<p>I think the sports issue is a problem. We want to encourage all kids to play sports and be physically active. For a very large school, only the exceptional athletes can play.</p>
<p>There are many drawbacks in attending a large public HS.. I attend a school of 4,500+ And on average the graduating class is about 1000 students, sometimes more, sometimes less. There are around 34 students in a class - you don't get any kind of individual attention. If you want to you need to earn it by going up to the teacher and asking questions personally out side of the classroom.. Its good because you get to meet a lot of new people and plus there's so much diversity.</p>
<p>Sports I see as a problem of letting everyone who wants to to play, but that's never seemed to be the point of high school sports to me. There are rec sports for kids who want to play, and the top people play for their high school. Having good sports teams helps to build school pride. My high school routinely fills our 3500 seat gym for the basketball game against our rival school. In some sports, the top players only play Club sports, and not the Varsity teams. I know people who are playing Division 1 sports (not football or basketball) who quit their high school teams.</p>
<p>I believe the average in Fairfax County is slightly larger than 2000 students, which is certainly bigger than a lot of schools, but I don't think there are many people there quick to send their kid to a smaller school. Bigger school doesn't mean worse education.</p>
<p>soccerguy: I think you have described the situation at large high schools: 3500 people SITTING. IMO the point of sports is to get people off their butts doing something. My D attended a HS with about 200 kids in a class. She was able to do 3 sports. When she transferred to a larger HS with 700 kids in a class, she only made one team. She spent most of the season on the bench and quit sports at the end of the season. I don't know what rec and club sports are. At the local HS, most kids don't do any sports if they are not good enough to make the teams. It could be that I just have an usual point of view. To me the point of sports is to play. I have never been a spectator and have little interest in watching someone else play.</p>
<p>Just an opinion, but many (?most) school districts with medium-large to huge high schools, do not have the financial resources of Fairfax County or a New Trier. For the average income school district, I think smaller may generally be better, because it is easier for the adults that are there to get involved with the students - best use of the human resources, fewer kids falling through the cracks.</p>
<p>Both kids attended the local public HS with about 1,900 students. School used to have "houses" but that was eliminated many years ago when it switched to a class dean/GC system. Grades 9 and 11 have the same dean and GCs who follow them throughout their four years. Same with grades 10 and 12. The school also has open campus--beginning with second semester of freshman year, students (with the permission of the parents) are allowed to go off campus when they don't have classes. This policy has instilled in the kids a sense of responsibility for getting to classes on time. (Attendance is taken at each class, so AWOLs are reported to the parents.)</p>
<p>S's freshman year was spent on the grounds of a former elementary school (we have a K-8 system) b/c the HS was undergoing renovations and construction that allowed for housing only three grades at a time. One benefit of that was that the freshmen didn't feel the pressure of the upperclassmen and got to know one another more easily. The downside was that they didn't get to meet upperclassmen unless they participated in extracurriculars. That concept was continued with freshmen being assigned to a specific group of teachers located in one area of the school so that there is a lot of interaction within the class.</p>
<p>S had four different GCs--one each year--but he was fortunate that his senior GC had been his freshman soccer coach. D had two GCs--her original one went on maternity leave her senior year. Both survived the process, but it was tough. It's been said that unless a kid is either a superstar or in trouble, s/he can easily fall between the cracks. Even though the headmaster knew her, D sometimes felt a bit "lost" in the crowd, and that's why she chose an LAC smaller than her HS.</p>
<p>As for athletics, the HS offers more than 50 varsity sports including girls' hockey, both downhill and x-country skiing, crew (boys and girls), sailing, and golf. The difficulty this poses is getting enough kids to go out for the teams. S wrestled and never was there a year when all the weight classes were filled. D played volleyball that fared much better. The priority for these sports is that academics comes first. Intramural sports are also offered for those kids who don't want to compete interscholastically. The school is not an athletic powerhouse--the football team is winless this year, but there are some exceptions each year--the girls' volleyball team was the league champion last year. There is a lot of school spirit, though.</p>
<p>Classes are held at 25 and this year, the headmaster has instituted a number of small seminars for .5 credit/semester (I think) for which kids can register. AP classes are open to any student, regardless of academic background, who is motivated to register for them.</p>
<p>my daughter who attends a 1600 student high school- is on a recreational league team( through the neighborhood where we live) no try outs- volunteer coaches- same team for 6 years- wonderful coach- ( he is an trial attorney who is going back to school in school administration)- she didn't try out for her school team as she wanted to stay on her rec team- and although she was on both her school team and rec team in middle school- it would be too time consuming in high school.
She has found sports however to be a way to get to know kids in her large high school. She is on the track team with kids across the academic spectrum and grade level. ( although they have an average of 3.5GPA)
Class sizes at her school are 32- they have allowed over enrollment in the past- with the school paying the fine to the teacher for each student over that labor imposed guideline but that is not longer an option, so some students are not able to get the classes they want- and the school had to write a letter for students to send with their college apps- stating that some students were in free period/teacher assistant- rather than an academic class- not out of choice</p>
<p>By the way - what is "large"? To me, the ideal size is somewhere between 600 and 1200 - with Ekitty's HS of 1600 being not totally outside reasonable and the other prep school in my town at 450 being OK, too, because the kids' needs are met with a relatively limited number of classes, since they are all college bound.</p>
<p>My SIL's kids' school at 2600 is BIG, and it truly looks like a prison, although it is a new building in an affluent, well educated, rapidly growing suburb.</p>
<p>IT brings up another issue - rapid growth - their school system and the student's experience has had problems because the size increased rapidly over 5-10 years, not as dramatic as Baton Rouge, but still really fast growth.</p>
<p>the seattle school district had roughly double the numbers of students when my H was attending in the 70s than it does now--
the average size of elem school is about 300-400- middle school 1000 and high school 1500- while they have closed a few buildings- and some schools are enrolled below capacity-most of the buildings make good use of the space</p>
<p>I wonder in these areas that are building schools for 5000 students- what are they going to do- when those students aren't there? When the population changes- when private schools start up because families dont want their kids to attend a school where the english dept has 22 teachers and only 5 of them are good-just the heating and maintenance costs for a building that size is a huge part ofthe school budget
What the district is currently doing to cope with reduced student population is contemplating closing some schools( oops consolidation)
to reduce transportation and building costs- possibly selling the land or leasing- but also is changing structure from seperate elementary and middle schools- to K-8 schools.
THis gives the kids and teachers more continuity in the classroom and curriculum. Allows for cross grade projects- ( when my daughter was in her K-12 school- she had a reading buddy- both when she was beginning to read- and when she was the older student) since a K-8 schools can be a tad larger than an elementary- gives the school more financial and parental resources-
of course when she got to high school age- she wanted to change schools because she didn't want to go to school with the "little" kids anymore :(</p>
<p>Edad, rec sports are the town teams......or they're sometimes at the YMCA....not as competitive but lots of fun.</p>
<p>My older kiddos attended public school before we moved east with a high school population of 4800+, grades 9-12. At first, kids were a little overwhelmed but they figured out the benefits quickly while trying to minimize the drawbacks.</p>
<p>Yes, sports were competitive but in order to participate it forced them (my kiddos) to practice and commit. As they have figured out it is 1% talent and 99% practice. Since the school was so large there were Varsity, JV and freshman teams for most sports, which included bowling and golf. My boys were football players and wrestlers so they ended up well-prepared for college ball. DD, swim/dive recruited for D1 teams owes much of her success to being supported by her high school team and coaches.</p>
<p>Since the school was so large the array of classes was fabulous. She had 3 years of architecture, CAD, industrial design, Latin, Spanish and landscape architecture in addition to six years of science with six labs! DS (the current high school senior) was able to have AP courses his freshman year and will graduate with 40 units (year long classes) instead of the required 21. He is graduating with TEN science courses and six in math, six in foreign language. And if he wanted to play football with his big brother than he needed to practice and commit.</p>
<p>We moved a year ago, across the country to a smaller high school. The first year the school was 1400. Last year, 1700. As of last week, 2200. We are used to the growth, but the school district is new to the rapid enlargement. Kids did experience the big fish in a smaller pond when we moved but did enjoy the smaller environment on some levels and on some not.</p>
<p>They missed the extreme diversity, the HUGE school spirit, the craziness of football fridays (previous school had a championship team) and the wonderful course selection. Since their current school is growing quickly some of the benefits of a smaller school have been lost.</p>
<p>We tried to look for the good and make the best of the situations.</p>
<p>Kat</p>