Large State School vs Small Tech School for female engineer?

College Majors Engineering Majors
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Hi all,

My daughter is still waiting on a few RD schools, but has already been accepted to some large and small schools for aerospace engineering or first/general engineering. Taking costs out of the equation (it is important, but not for this discussion) she is really stuck deciding on which type of school would work best for her. Trying to narrow down some options.

A small background. She goes to a small private school and is SO ready for a bigger school. Even a school of 4000 would be nice at this point. She has played multiple sports all of her life and wants to continue with club or IM at college. She could probably play D3 for one, but doesn’t think it would work with engineering course load and never pursued it. She loves engineering, coding, gaming, anything space/astronomy-related. She is not an introvert though. Besides playing/watchings sports and hanging out with friends, her other love is creative writing. She was the founder/creator of her school’s Diversity Day and program (3rd year running) and has been invited to many conferences nationwide to learn and locally to speak. She is also the President of the Gay-Straight Alliance and is gay herself. She definitely wants to do some global education.

Large Schools (think Florida, Purdue, Mich, Arizona)

Positives:
school spirit, big time sports, fairly even girl/boy ratio, more kids outside of the tech environment to befriend, easier option to move to another major outside of engineering if she changes her mind. Large Woman in engineering base. More IM sports and clubs for stress relief. Larger presence of LGBT.

Negatives: Potentially too big, not enough support, hard to get the right classes to graduate in 8 semesters. Most research goes to graduates. Co-ops could be beneficial, but delay graduation (although none of the schools mandates them.) Not enough personal connection to professors. It may be easier to lose focus on how hard you have to work.

Small or Tech Schools (think Case, WPI, RPI, etc…)

Positives:
Well oiled machine. More support. Easier to get the classes you want. A lot of “we are all in this together.” The only part she really liked about attending a small high school is her relationship with teachers and how much they rooted and pushed for her. She thinks she will have more of that at a smaller school. Easier to find and keep friends in a smaller environment. (She noticed many kids eat alone at lunch at bigger schools and more kids eat together at smaller schools.)

Negatives:
Not as much school spirit, lack of kids attending sports or other fun college events, hard to change major to a non-stem option, male/female ratio. Small LGBT base. Not many interesting options for your electives. Less life and personal growth. Meaning everyone there is focused on graduating and going to work, and not experiencing and embracing the college life.

Would love to get feedback from people who were in the same position choosing and why they chose one over the other. I realize both have advantages/disadvantages, but hoping some feedback and personal experience will help.

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I can help! My D went to a 400 person all-girls Catholic school and she chose between a smaller private University and a large big-10 engineering. She went large and it worked out well - she loved the school spirit, loved the games and the cheers and found her way in the big school very easily. But here’s the important part (for me) - her school WORKS to make sure girls in engineering feel welcome and comfortable. To me, that’s the most important part of the decision - engineering has traditionally been white male-dominated: what is the school doing for women and minority engineers? What are their policies? What support do they have?

A couple of examples - my D was in an all-girls dorm which had an engineering floor her freshman year. That meant she was surrounded by women facing the same classes and challenges and the study support from that alone was huge. Her school (Purdue) also has a positively fabulous policy on group work - women and minorities are never the “only one” in their project group. If a group has one woman in it, it has at least two. That means the girls aren’t spending their time in project work trying to be heard above the competing male voices. It’s a GREAT policy and in my D’s experience her project groups more than held their own against the male-only groups. I could go on but this isn’t an ad for Purdue, it’s just my opinion: how a school handles women in engineering is really much more key than program size. She could go to a small school where she felt isolated or a large school where she felt welcomed and supported. Go visit each school and ask the women in the engineering program how they feel about being there as students, as women and as engineers. Don’t decide just on size because attitude and effort is everything when it comes to the tenor of an engineering program.

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My son faced the same sort of decision, but upon exploring the schools made up his mind relatively quickly. He decided he wanted a strong academic and technical focus, and got that "vibe " at the smaller technical school he chose. The larger population and variety of other majors, sports and social activities, etc. were not as important and seemed to make some of the bigger school less focused in his view. His school does have large Skiing and Outing (Outdoorsman) groups he can enjoy – but he is not into the big frat and D1 sports scenes.

In short, it sounds like the decision is between academic/career advantages and personal or social ones…? And perhaps some perceived academic flexibility at the larger institutions…? Regarding that I will say he was already focused on science and/or engineering – so that the required “flexibility” might have been between the engineering departments, which is not always easy due to course requirements and competitive entry into many of the departments. For my son though, the “flexibility” required was not to change from Engineering to say, Political Science for example – like you might be able to do credibly at a big university, where both/all such departments are well-regarded. That just wasn’t necessary for my son.

Bottom line, I think an excellent, focused education is possible either way – with perhaps a little more self-direction required at a bigger school where you might feel like a “number” and there are more distractions. There are more personal and social opportunities at the bigger schools – but how “big” is “too big”? How many things (simultaneously) can one person actually do? Maybe the real bottom line is, however big or small to go with the one that “feels right”…?

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To answer this question,posters would really need to know which actual schools you are talking about. Not all big schools are alike and not all small schools are alike. Some big schools actually have small classes. Some small schools still face challenges getting students into classes. The list goes on. Suffice it to say, generalizations won’t inform her decision very well.

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Honestly I think this is a personal choice. One is not better than the other by definition…it boils down to what is better for your daughter. Two reasonable people could come up with two different decisions and both could be correct for their specific case.

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My daughter had a mix of schools in terms of size and public/private as well.

DD went to a smallish, co-ed, catholic STEM HS. Her graduating class had about 220 students.

She ended up choosing Purdue. Her experience has been similar to @CaMom13’s daughter. There is a ton of support, zero issues with course scheduling (her engineering advisor has been OUTSTANDING), she eats dinner with one of her professors every week, the career center is amazing, and the goal is to graduate everyone in 8 semesters.

The co-op is a well oiled machine and doesn’t impact how many semesters to graduation, they just aren’t all consecutive.

There are also tons of undergraduate research opportunities available.

Purdue also has an amazing freshman orientation program which greatly helped the transition to college.

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PS - There is a very vibrant and supportive LGBTQ community at Purdue.

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To a large degree, it comes down to an individual’s fit in a community. There is no substitute for visiting if possible for an overnight. I would try to select a top two and go for overnight.

How does one measure school spirit? To some it may be major division one sports. To others it may be playing in an orchestra, staring in a play, playing club ice hockey, or being part of a team in an overseas research project.

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School spirit for her isn’t just sports. It is definitely theater, clubs, events, etc… Basically doing other things besides STEM related stuff. A few of the smaller schools mention no one but a handful of students go to any games. Some IM teams are hard to fill. That many of the kids are introverts that study and stay in their dorms. That is hard to get a feel for, even on an overnight. Same with large schools. It feels personable at the admitted day, but does it stay that way. She sees so many positives to both. I just wanted to get perspectives from kids that have been there, done that.

And the main reason I didn’t want to mention exact schools is because I just wanted a generalization, even for students/parents that aren’t in the schools she is looking at. Plus she is still waiting on a few RD’s and their packages before narrowing down. This was more of if you looked at both types, what made you choose one over the other. No right or wrongs.

Thanks for the responses so far!

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In general, the big schools topped my daughter’s list because (in no particular order) she felt they had:

  • better lab facilities and maker spaces
  • more balanced male/female ratio
  • more support for internships/co-ops/career placement
  • more extensive research opportunities
  • a wider breath of study abroad
  • more music and theater opportunities at all levels
  • the ability to start engineering design courses from day 1
  • fewer gen ed requirements she didn't want to take
  • more AP credits accepted to leave more room for the electives she wanted

I was concerned about bigger class size but that has turned out not to be an issue at all because the two large lectures she has, have mandatory recitations that are no more than 25 students. The PhD students teaching the recitations are fantastic.

YMMV depending on the schools on your list.

I agree with trying to do an overnight and attending some courses at the top contenders.

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I agree with @momofsenior1’s post. I loved UT-Austin as a female engineering student and felt very supported. I had so many profs who either were National Academy of Engineering members or were inducted after I graduated. Outstanding professors and research facilities. I will repeat what I always advise: Going to a big school is like living in a big city. You don’t see all 50,000 students at once, except at football games, which are awesome. You find your “neighborhood” and get to know your classmates and professors well. You’re not going to be spoon fed, but there are LOTS of opportunities. My son was doing research as a freshman in the BME labs just a few years ago.

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Has she visited any of them? My kids had definite opinions after visiting - I thought they would like the smaller tech schools, but neither one of my kids liked any of them at all, and definitely gravitated toward the bigger schools. Many of the tech schools are in urban areas, which is what turned my kids off - they wanted a big self-contained campus. Your D may feel the opposite - some of the big rural campuses are pretty isolated.

You mentioned one of the positives of a big school is having friends outside the tech area - that may not happen even at a big school - all of my D’s friends are engineers or computer science majors, since that is who is in all of her classes and on her project team. You should also consider some of the requirements of the tech schools. I know that one of them now has a mandatory summer session and all of the juniors are kicked off campus for one semester to find a coop. Coops are great, but not everyone wants to be forced into it.

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@NewSR1. You just described Michigan for all the right reasons (notice we will all plug the schools our kids are currently at). I am more concerned with her being gay atta smaller school like Rose Hulman with the ratio from men to women very lopsided. At Michigan being gay is well…
normal with a lot of clubs activities if she decides to join. Also you can make a large school feel very small by joining activities /clubs /groups. They have an awesome IM sports… It’s extremely active with men /women’s /mixed teams.

Getting to know professors is really up to the kid. My son knows a few professors very well. Common interest will bring them together quickly.

With Michigan you can switch majors in engineering pretty easily. Some of the other schools you mentioned not so much.
If you want research even as a freshman all you have to do is email some professors.
… Big time sports… Well enough said you will find it there. Graduating in 4 years… Not a problem
Getting classes… Not a problem.
I will add alumni… Yes it’s a real thing at Michigan.

I think some of your thoughts of a “large” school are not correct. If you visit you will see Central campus is not really that large… It’s very nice and walkable in a very active city.

As an aside. All schools for engineering are going to be tough. Having support is key any of the large schools have resources in abundance to help these kids get through. It’s up to the kids to take advantage of them. In other words… Engineering is tough regardless what school you go to.

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  • better lab facilities and maker spaces
  • more balanced male/female ratio
  • more support for internships/co-ops/career placement
  • more extensive research opportunities
  • a wider breath of study abroad
  • more music and theater opportunities at all levels
  • the ability to start engineering design courses from day 1
  • fewer gen ed requirements she didn't want to take
  • more AP credits accepted to leave more room for the electives she wanted

MIT and Stanford (and many others), fit this description reasonably and they are small undergraduate programs. My son’s school, Cal Poly, is a larger school (20,000), but has all small classes, nearly all taught, labs and discussions included, by instructors with terminal degrees.

Every school my son applied to met nearly all of the criteria above. They ranged from over 30,000 (Utah) to 4000 (WPI).

I don’t think you can infer much of anything from size alone.

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Which is the only school to be in the Top 15 in both football (top 10 most of the season) and men’s basketball? And also went to the Frozen Four (final 4 of college hockey) last season?

Hmmm. A big football, basketball and hockey school, which one, which one. Hint: it’s not Florida or Arizona. :slight_smile:

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At times my daughter wished her smaller school (3500) was bigger. It was very lopsided with 70% men and 30% women, and she was even in the smallest, fewest women department (civil). She had a lot of friends/roommates who are gay and that never seemed to be an issue even in a conservative, southern town. Those women didn’t seem to have an issue finding partners or activities.

One thing smaller schools can do better is let the engineers participate in other activities without having to try out or devote a lot of time to those activities. Her school had very few liberal arts classes but it did have a really nice orchestra and a theater group that included faculty. Those students got to use the nice facilities and when engineers design sets they look pretty nice. There were not a lot of student who excelled at writing (creative or otherwise) so if someone had an interest she could be a superstar (and a TA in the writing lab!). I don’t think an engineer at a big school would be cast in a school play or work on the school newspaper (at least at my large flagship, that wasn’t a casual activity).

Most of the smaller tech schools are D2 or D3 for athletics, which allows more students to participate. It’s still a commitment, but my daughter was able to do D2 athletics while in engineering. There was only one class she couldn’t take (the cement canoe challenge) because it was a spring activity and she was in a spring sport (competition dates conflicted). Not a big deal.

At either type of school, the student has to make the opportunities happen. At a big school there will be a marching band, but would the student have time? At a small school it might be a pep band, but require less time.

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@sushiritto… Michigan… Ha…

@twoinanddone https://www.engin.umich.edu/about/ann-arbor-campus/student-life/student-orgs-activities/

Just had to laugh. 1/3 of Michigan’s marching band are engineers…

Most schools have student led theater etc groups/papers etc.

@NewSR1 the link above addresses some of your concerns head on.

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From the aerospace perspective I would suggest a larger school. We have a tendency to hire from the bigger schools. More bang for the buck to go recruiting there. All the recent hires I know of came from a larger school or a satellite of a larger school (BYU - Idaho: I never knew it existed!) Doing an internship or coop is very important. Most of our new hires had been interns here first.

At most of the big schools women in engineering will be numerous. (I am an engineer if you hadn’t guessed and went to SMU: a little too small) Also she will be able to “find her tribe” there are so many people and activities. Enjoy looking!

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" Co-ops could be beneficial, but delay graduation (although none of the schools mandates them.) " - True, but relevant to both categories.

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comment deleted after re-reading the thread.