<p>quick answer, I'm sure others will know more. The FAFSA can be recalculated and the EFC changed. Each time you change it you sort of go to the back of the line at the school. So sending it in this weekend and then changing it in 3 weeks can be a mistake.
Since we are talking the difference between 49k income and and low EFC and a 46k EFC I'd at least do the business stuff first. Can you run a business tax program and have the basic info now?</p>
<p>QUICK NEW QUESTION</p>
<p>I hope someone can answer this. A friend with a $0 EFC sent son off to Div. 1 school that promised $$. Didn't happen and kid didn't like the place. Now enrolled in local state college for spring semester. The boy will live at home. They have 0 EFC for real. Can they apply for financial aid money to help cover tuition, and also the cost of living at home, commuting etc?<br>
How fast can that be done?</p>
<p>Contact the school directly. Some colleges/universities will include an allowance for transportation and other costs for commuters. For instance, Fordham has a FA grant just for commuter students. If he is Pell Grant eligible, he should also make sure he will receive that. The school may also give him FA towards books and other educational expenses that the Pell Grant won't cover. However, I am not sure any school will cover the cost of living at home.</p>
<p>Colleges can give money including release of govt funds up to their COST OF ATTENDANCE (COA). This is a real number that each college uses, generally as the upward limit of what they will give. There would have to be an unusual home situation for additional funds to be given for the cost of living at home.Colleges do often have the leeway to make these adjustments, particularly when it comes to their own money. Many top schools give extra allowances beyond COA for kids who need that extra. I know a young man who is an orphan, and basically homeless and his college does give him aid that reflects this situation. I have heard of kids who have gotten transportation and clothing allowances. It usually happens at the most selective schools. </p>
<p>One thing I noticed around here is that many of our local colleges including a state school in this area, is that they do not give 100% of need. So even having a zero EFC is not going to be helpful in getting full aid, if the school in question does not give out much aid and tends to gap everyone. </p>
<p>I have noticed here that many believe that a zero EFC is the ticket for a free ride. That is NOT necessarily the case, and if often not the case. Just because the govt says you as a family should not have to pay for college does not mean it provides the funds for you. Nor do most colleges pick up the entire COA. All it gives you is eligibility for those govt funds such as the Pell and some govt backed loans, including some subsidized ones. If govt funds do not cover the entire cost, the college can pick up the rest of the cost, but many schools do not have that money. Also the more generous schools require completion of more stringent forms such as PROFILE before they release any of their funds.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse, I worked with middle aged woman a few years ago. She worked part time and was getting goverment subsidies. She was in community college, had a good gpa and was continuing on to a 4 year instate college. She was a single parent of 2 minors, and a URM. She was offered a free-ride. She told them that she needed money for transportation to the school (she has access or owns a car). They gave her extra money to cover her transportation costs.</p>
<p>Excellent point about a zero EFC not being the same as a ticket for a free ride, Cpt. Unfortunately, relatively few schools promise to meet 100% of demonstrated need for every student. And, out of those that do, only about 5 promise no loans for very low income students.</p>
<p>Northeastmom, it does occaisionally happen that a school will give a free ride plus payment of living expenses, but it is rare. I know where we used to live, there was a program for working adults who did not have a college degree to return to college, and there were grants earmarked for this specific purpose. It is entirely possible that a situation like the one you describe could occur there, and anywhere. However, if you look at the financial aid breakdowns at colleges (a good source for this inf is the USN&WR), you'll see that it is exceedingly rare that this happens. The averages of aid met just do not support it happening often. It is a myth that getting a zero EFC means you will get a free ride. It can happen, but for most kids, a zero EFC means they will really have to scrape to get enough money to go to college since most colleges do not meet 100% of need. Unless you qualify for a highly selective school that does guarantee full need met, yu generally have to find a school inexpensive enough that govt aid will meet most of the costs, and then hope that the school can come up with a grant or other resources. Many of kids in that situation will have to work to make up the gap, and/or borrow money in addition to the subsidized loans. There are exceptions, but not wise to depend on them because full rides are very rare, and that goes for everyone.</p>
<p>"I hope someone can answer this. A friend with a $0 EFC sent son off to Div. 1 school that promised $$. Didn't happen and kid didn't like the place. "</p>
<p>Something is wrong with this story. If the kid didn't get $, he wouldn't have been able to go to that school at all since he had a $0 EFC. He couldn't have spent a semester at the school just on the school's promises to give money that never came through.</p>
<p>I suspect that the kid got a scholarship, lost his scholarship due to bad grades, and then the family created a story that he left because he didn't like the school. They may think that he can start all over by applying to college and not mentioning that he already has spent a semester in college.</p>
<p>Anyway, whatever his story is, the odds are low that he can transfer into any college except for possibly a community college for this spring semester. It's virtually impossible that any college would give him the aid he needs for spring semester. He may have to live at home and borrow $ to commute to a community college or work a job while living at home and going to a community college part time.</p>
<p>cptofthehouse, I know it is rare. I just wanted to share that it can happen. The woman I am describing, is probably considered an atypical student, and there may have been money available, specifically for a student that meets her description.</p>
<p>
My son isn't paying much more than that for in-state rates at Humboldt State.</p>
<p>"I suspect that the kid got a scholarship, lost his scholarship due to bad grades, and then the family created a story that he left because he didn't like the school. They may think that he can start all over by applying to college and not mentioning that he already has spent a semester in college"</p>
<p>Completely wrong. sheesh.
no tricks here. the world might look better if you just asked rather than assumed meanspriritedness, though after a time on CC I can see where the thought that trickery is common comes from. (sigh)
this urm student was a low performing student til junior year. of hs. jr and sr. year he did well and towards the end of senior year also did much better than before in his sport stats. he investigated an hbc and they had a big interest in him. they assured him he would qualify for a sports scholarship although he was (I think) .1 off the required GPA for NCAA rules. At the last minute (aug and sept) they said it wasn't going to go through and "helped" his parents get the money needed over pell and etc by private loans. His grades this first semester in college were at least a 3.0, maybe a bit higher. He despised the place the whole time. When he came home for the holiday, already sure he was leaving and putting CC paperwork together. no though of his sport, he just wanted to continue with his education in a place he liked. he visited a nearby state school with a friend from his h.s. team. The coach met him -maybe prepped by friend?-and helped him apply for this school. he is now enrolled both in the state school as a transfer and on the team. this is a Div. III school.
Though in our town the HYPe of name schools exists in the top track there is also everyone else. some parents foreign born, or up from the poverty of our US ghettos. most of our neighbors would not lie about the grades or scholarship situation. following the adventures of the (usually male) kids from kindergarten through college is like a soap opera. lots of funny stories and most of the boys now educated and working away. often they were always workers-selling lemonaide, running a yard sale of their old toys etc right on through adult type jobs in h.s. It was taking that and putting it toward education that took a while to happen for some kids. This is a whole different world than the one where most CC parents reside. I like it!</p>
<p>I have a dumb question- this always confuses me.
Like Oldinjersey, my kids are 4 yrs apart- currently 1 is a jr in HS on a jr in college. So, officially, I will never have 2 in college at one time. Like oldinjersey, older s may go to grad school. Don't know yet. If he goes to grad school, we may continue to help out financially. When and how should I contact schools for younger s to have them take this into consideration?</p>
<p>"Completely wrong. sheesh.
no tricks here. the world might look better if you just asked rather than assumed meanspriritedness, though after a time on CC I can see where the thought that trickery is common comes from. (sigh)
"</p>
<p>FYI, I wasn't assuming meanspiritness. It is not at all unusual for families who are embarassed that a kid flunked out of college to provide other explanations for a kid's dropping out of college. Often the explanation is money problems. I have seen this in CC stories, and also saw this at the college (incidentally an HBCU) where I used to teach, where students whom I knew had flunked out often told their friends that they left because of financial problems. </p>
<p>I don't blame people for prevaricating because they don't want others to know things about their lives that are embarassing and are really no one's biz anyway.</p>
<p>I've also done a lot of work with high school and college students from the kind of backgrounds that you describe. This included some students who lied about things like college acceptances, etc. One included a student -- first gen college, very inner city neighborhood, horrible school -- who lied about withdrawing her Harvard application even though I had seen the documentation from H that she was rejected. (Yes, sometimes even first gen/poor URM students can aspire to H and be ashamed at rejection!)</p>
<p>Lying happens all over -- and not just among the kids trying to get to HPYS.</p>
<p>I don't think that many of us would have come up with this scenario on our own, oldinJersey
[quote]
they assured him he would qualify for a sports scholarship although he was (I think) .1 off the required GPA for NCAA rules. At the last minute (aug and sept) they said it wasn't going to go through and "helped" his parents get the money needed over pell and etc by private loans.
[/quote]
NSM took a stab and was wrong. I don't think it was motivated by ill will. "Duped and hoaxed by a lying thieving scum coach" (as the story goes) didn't pop to the top of my list either. </p>
<p>Although I have no specific advice on how to swing next semester I think the obviously intelligent son of a $0 efc family should fully invest himself in the search and not rely on the kindnesses of coaches and other strangers. IMHO It's a bit late in the game to be wondering about aid for next week. </p>
<p>I believe a "gap" semester working and a lot of time researching and forming a cohesive financial plan would serve him much better than a pile of more "private loans" in a hastily hatched arttempt to save the semester. </p>
<p>He doesn't need another band-aid. He needs a plan.</p>
<p>Oldinjersey, I lived for many years in a midwestern area similar to your description. I heard so many stories that were not true, that everyone there would swear are gospel to this day. In many cases, I had a little bit of extra info so I knew it was not true. Schools that did not give athletic scholarships giving athletic scholarships, a good friend with inside info, the parent having confided a piece of info that was left out of the official story, the kid telling my son something that was not in the tale, a teacher/counselor inadvertantly letting something slip, and in one case, a kid leaving a letter at my house that explained things. Our official stories about our sons when there were issues, though not lies, did not touch on all the facts and variables. It was just easier to stick them into a general bag. Most people do that understandably, but often also change a couple of things around. Kids also inexpicably hate a place and do leave in good standing.<br>
OldinJersey, since your friend already filled out FAFSA which is all that is usually needed in state schools, all he has to do is change or add the name of the old college and the report will be sent to the school. In a transfer situation, it is wise for the parents to schedule a visit with the financial aid office and personally talk to the financial aid officer. The chances are that all the grants are gone at this time of the year, and transfers tend to be at the bottom of the list for money, so this extra step will at least put them in the officer's mind, and maybe something will come up. The kid will be eligible for the half of the Pell grant and other govt aid that is yet unused this academic year. There may also be state money not offered if the kid went out of state for the first half of the year. In any case, for the following year, you want to be first in line, so that visit would be worthwhile. I don't know how quickly FAFSA provides that EFC to the school, but as soon as you know they have it, they should see the financial aid counselor.<br>
Jym, though there are some schools that do take into account graduate/prof school status for another sibling, even those schools will not give it a thought until the kid is actually in the school and you are actually paying out the money. We have friends who are supporting older kids in such a situation with their youngest at a top LAC which is pretty generous in the aid department. They do take the support into consideration, but they want to see the actual money paid for tuition to the schools, and will not consider any "gift" or support money not so indicated. For one of the older kids that is causing issues in that the school considers such support from the parent as grounds for including that as expected when coming up with an aid package for the kid. So you can get caught into such a situation. But colleges are not a bit interested in what your future situations and obligations may be even in cases where the need is extreme such an older parent, special needs kid, etc. Until the actual expenses are incurred, they will not make any consideration. You can see why--who knows what the future will bring? THere are enough active considerations that are submitted, to go into potential situations would be crazy. With 5 kids, I could be supporting all of them in various needy situations when my youngest who is 4 years younger than the one immediately older than he is.</p>
<p>"Although I have no specific advice on how to swing next semester I think the obviously intelligent son of a $0 efc family should fully invest himself in the search and not rely on the kindnesses of coaches and other strangers. IMHO It's a bit late in the game to be wondering about aid for next week. "</p>
<p>I agree. I also agree that he probably would be better off taking off a semester or even a full year and working. Odds are that he'll get next to nothing as a transfer student, particularly one who's transferring at the last minute.</p>
<p>If he is able to get a job such as through Americorps or Americorps Vista, he'd get up to a $200 a week stipend plus about $4,700 that he can use for college expenses. He can do Americorps for up to 2 years and get up to a total of about $9,400 to use for college. The program is excellent, and includes training in time management, financial management, professionalism and grant writing. Americorps also provides career and educational advice to their volunteers.</p>
<p>The program particularly is interested in finding people from the inner city with the work ethic to do the program, so he probably would have a good chance of getting accepted. Many Americorps volunteers work with either inner city children or in disaster relief. The experiences also will be very beneficial when the Americorps graduates go into the job market.</p>
<p>My S is doing Americorps, working mainly with middle and high school teens -- and is having an excellent experience. </p>
<p>Here's a link: <a href="http://www.americorps.org/%5B/url%5D">http://www.americorps.org/</a></p>
<p>Here's a link to the City Year Americorps programs, which I have personally visited, and have a reputation for being the best Americorps programs: <a href="http://www.cityyear.org/%5B/url%5D">http://www.cityyear.org/</a></p>
<p>northstarmom - I guess I would have prefered " is it possible he lost the scholarship" rather than " I suspect he lost the scholarship".
Since the parents borrowed the money for the hbc first semester, I think they are planning to borrow the rest for this semester. I was just hoping there might be a way to borrow enough to cover his expenses on top of the loans to keep him there. yes, a year off might have been good though with this boy I personally wouldn't have suggested it. He already spent time in high school being told he wasn't really bright enough for "real" college.
thats why the hbc seemed such a good idea. he didn't relate to the place. our h.s. is 30% black, 30%white, 30%hispanic and 10% asian/others. he was as uncomfortable there as my son was visiting bucknell back when it was mostly white. just outside the comfort zone. I don't mean to suggest that parents of high flying kids are less honest than kids heading off to community college - though I do think the pressure to impress is lower. It was literally what I wrote-most of my neighbors haven't been like that. It's a pretty close bunch.
So, they can go on FAFSA and have the numbers sent to the state school, and call the financial aid office. anything else?</p>
<p>"thats why the hbc seemed such a good idea. he didn't relate to the place. our h.s. is 30% black, 30%white, 30%hispanic and 10% asian/others. he was as uncomfortable there as my son was visiting bucknell back when it was mostly white. just outside the comfort zone. "</p>
<p>Truth is, however, that it's typical for most students -- whatever their race or background -- to be somewhat uncomfortable the first semester of college while they find friends, etc. I always am concerned when students drop out of college because of discomfort before they have spent a full year there. Except in the most extreme cases, I think that it's usually better to spend a full year there because that gives students more of a chance to find friends, activities, etc.</p>
<p>I have seen students fit into HBCUs despite coming from high schools in which they were virtually the only black students in their classes. Yes, it is an adjustment, but the adjustment is possible, and I think it is worth it to at least spend a year there before transferring.</p>
<p>I have seen students transfer, too, for reasons that you describe, but those students at least spent a year at the college. </p>
<p>Doing that does make a difference. One gets to learn about one's own culture, learn the HBCU culture and college in general, and then make a thoughtful, probably affordable decision to transfer.</p>
<p>One concern that I have is that there's a chance that some of the things that the young man didn't like are things that he may encounter at any college, even mainstream ones. At his local public university, he also is probably unlikely to encounter some of the nurturing and overall support and interest from faculty that is a hallmark of HBCUs. At the HBCU, it's likely that faculty spotted his talents, and definitely believed in him. Black males in paticular stand out at HBCUs because those institutions are overwhelmingly female, yet the faculty and administration tends to be overwhelmingly male, many of whom may have come from backgrounds similar to that of your young friend. HBCUs are rare places where the people in charge treasure black males for their academics. </p>
<p>At the public institution, he's more likely to be in huge classes, and to be relatively invisible or to be seen as yet another black male who isn't bright or expected to excel. He's also not as like to encounter black faculty as role models.</p>
<p>A big plus of Americorps is that it is not easy to get into. Their volunteers also are admired. I think that they reject 3 out of 4 applicants. It's definitely not a place for losers! Your friend, however, as a person from the inner city with college experience and a high level of motivation, would have an excellent chance of getting in. The experience also would teach him some things that would help him adjust emotionally more easily to college -- wherever he chose to go. I can not emphasize how much I have seen my S (who came from a highly educated, middle class background) grow in terms of maturity and confidence as a result of his Americorps experience. He even has been the featured speaker in two college classes! Not bad, for an 18-year-old h.s. graduate!</p>
<p>With a zero EFC, he is entitled to the other half of his Pell and other govt grants, plus any state grants that automatically go to low income students. With the lower cost, that should cover a decent part of the tuition. Unless the college coughs up some of their stash, which is unlikely unless they have some special program where there are few qualifiers with money left in it, the rest is going to be loans, which he has already experienced first term. The good news is that they will be less since the cost will be less. ALso he may qualify for state subsidized loans if the state has such a program which many do for kid going instate. That is why the family needs to talk to financial aid to find out what the state has for them since they missed out on all of this first term. I know our state school held a summer orientation and included was a financial aid office presentation that gave info on what was available in our state and from the university. If you spotted anything that looked relevant that you did not have, you were to talk to fin aid and see if you could get some. Your friend missed out on all of this, and he may not be invited for such a session even for next year as many of these things are for freshmen only, though some schools are now addressing transfers as well. But mid year transfers are not in the financial aid support system most of the time. Your friend's son may be eligible for some money next year as a URM and a transfer with decent grades from the prior school. Those opportunities should also be investigated when they talk to financial aid so that he is first in line for those goodies. But last minute like this, I can't see anything else that he is likely to get.</p>
<p>S. is still receiving occasional letters and information from various schools. Some arrived a couple weeks ago from Princeton. The "Financial Aid Program at a Glance" info showed that 54% of students receive aid, but what was surprising to us was a graph showing Average Grant by Family Income. The bar graph showed an average of about $13,000 for families in the $160,000-199,000 income range, and $11-12,000 for families with an income over $200,000. I know that Princeton is need blind, and aid is need-based. THese figures seem quite generous, even taking into account a large endowment, students with multiple siblings in college (though I guess there are some large families out there) and some of the other factors mentioned above. Probably an ignorant question, but was wondering how common this is....</p>