<p>2006 AGI of 52K, savings of 57K = EFC of 12K</p>
<p>Is that alot of money???</p>
<p>YIKES. Why didn't they ask me a question where I could tell them my car is a 1991 honda civic or that my winter coat is 10 years old.</p>
<p>Only other variable is retirement of 9K. I guess I'm supposed to eliminate that....</p>
<p>We were surprised to hear of families with that level income (over $200K) receiving any aid at all. It was also a surprise to friend whose nephew attends, and whose parents make nowhere near that amount, and recieve no aid. Obviously there are a lot of factors that figure in that we're not aware of.</p>
<p>Did you put away $9k into retirement this year, or is that what is sitting in retirement? Many if not most people I know have had to put retirement savings on hold while paying for kids' college costs. Something financial specialist say is not wise to do. </p>
<p>HPY tend to be more generous than most schools for most people when they come up with the EFC, and they are also much more generous in the composition of their financial aid. Many other schools come up with a lower need number than federal methodology. Some are even going after pension money. I think some PROFILE schools do ask what kind of car you own, not to credit you for having a clunker but to go after it as an asset if you own a luxury vehicle.</p>
<p>Hehe, my parents had the exact same reaction as the OP once we finished the CSS/FAFSA. After submitting it was like "EFC: 27781", instead of the 22k my parents originally thought.</p>
<p>Curmudgeon says EFC stands for "Every F...... Cent". I would agree, except there is the Profile that really goes into the family financial crevices.</p>
<p>Sueinphilly,</p>
<p>The EFC is calculated with the expectation that about $3200 will come from your $57K in savings. (5.6%). (If you have the savings invested well, you should be able to make most of that back in interest - there are a lot of money market funds & CD's now paying more than 5%). That leaves $9K from your earnings. If the $9K in retirement is this year's contribution, that counts as income for FAFSA purposes - so your income is considered to be $61K, not $52K -- with $9K untaxed. (But I've done the math -- the tax savings are generally higher than the EFC increase, so I think someone like you with a good nest egg of savings would still benefit from making the retirement contribution).</p>
<p>When your son goes off to college, there are a number of expenses at home that will go down -- you'll be paying for room and board, but you won't be feeding him at home. My experience is that ends up being quite a chunk of savings, especially with a boy. So with your income (which is very similar to mine), $9K really isn't that much of a stretch -- a lot of at-home expenses can be trimmed. </p>
<p>That being said I've got some bad news: if any college asked you to submit information beyond the FAFSA, either via its own forms or the CSS Profile, they will consider assets that are not included on the FAFSA, and in most cases expect a higher family contribution. Also, unless a college promises to meet 100% of need, you cannot count on it meeting the EFC. </p>
<p>I will be very happy if my EFC comes out to $12K for next year -- it was considerably less this year, but my older child has now aged out and will be deemed independent for FAFSA purposes -- good news for him, but it will be a hit on the calculation for my daughter. So I'm anticipating a big jump. (The fun thing was that sending my son the email telling him that he gets to do his own FAFSA from now on).</p>
<p>Yes the 9k was for this year. It's making like 11-13% so I'd rather keep doing that and spend the savings. </p>
<p>When he's not here in the summer (at camp) my water bill is less, but other monthly costs (besides food) won't go down that much. I guess I can stop paying for the extra cable outlet (whoo hoo just saved $9) </p>
<p>I am assuming that I would still be giving him money 'on the side'. I mean someone has to buy the contact lenses and pay the cell bill, right??</p>
<p>The only thing (besides the car) that I can think of that the CSS wanted to know was the balance in retirement account. I could borrow from that at a rate much less than the plus loan.....</p>
<p>Is the 9K money YOU are contributing to your 401k plan or is this employer-contributed money? Only the $$ you have withheld from your paycheck gets throqn back into the assets calculation -- not the employer contribution.</p>
<p>that is what is withheld from my pay. We can contribute up to 15K. I'm doing 15% of my pay, company matches some of that. But if I took out 0, I would only see maybe 7K because of having to pay federal income tax on the extra income.</p>
<p>If the company matches some of your retirement contributions, then you are definitely better off continuing those. Your EFC will go up, but your tax savings and the dollars gained by the company match are much higher than the EFC increase -- especially given the fact that if those funds were NOT put into retirement, if you saved, they would also be assessed at that 5.6% rate. Since your son likes math and knows about your finances, you might ask him to do some of the calculations for you for various scenarios -- that might also be a way to get him more involved in a positive way. (I always felt it worked better to ask my son for "advice" rather than give him lectures -- he sure loves showing off how smart he is and telling his mom what he thinks I should do. The nice thing is that my son often ends up giving me good advice when it comes to money).</p>
<p>I mean, the bottom line is that if you pay $1000 more for college every year, but down the line you have $10000 more in retirement savings for the $4000 more you had to pay.... you are $6000 ahead. So long term, in most cases, I think its best to keep up those retirement contributions. </p>
<p>I have not given my kids spending money in college; I did continue to pay for things like dental and optometrist, and I have paid for the cell phone because I like to be able to get in touch with my kids. (My son started college without a cell phone and I could never reach him... so his birthday gift that spring was a cell phone, but the point is that it was largely for my own peace of mind - he never asked for one). But my kids paid for their own books, incidentals, entertainment, etc -- and after the first year, my son was also paying for his own food as he had kitchen facilities and went off the college meal plan. I simply expected that my kids would work during the summers and use their work study money to pay for those expenses. </p>
<p>I think what you pay for vs. what the kid pays for is an individual choice, but it has been a very big help for me to not have to give either of my kids an allowance or send off money other than what the college bills for. So whatever the choice is, I think it's good to agree on that in advance. Obviously I would not let my kids starve and if they ran out of money I'd help them out -- but what I have seen is that when they know it is their responsibility, they rise to the occasion and are better about budgeting their own expenses. </p>
<p>My kids were both driving at home but went far away to college, so I had the added big savings of being able to take them off the car insurance -- though that might not apply for everyone. But that saves a couple of thousand a year for me.</p>
<p>If EFC stands for "Every F...... Cent", then CSS stands for: Colonoscopy Search for Sinners. Yes, I am in the medical field and frankly, with the Profile nothing stands hidden!</p>
<p>How far does Fafsa go in checking your money. For instance...say I have $300,000 in the bank. But, I have three kids that will end up (conservatively) costing $300,000 to educate. Now, I may have the money right now, but I won't have it later when the last child graduates. So, who is to check if I put down that I have $0 in savings as opposed to $300,000 and what, if any, would a penalty be? You know, it's not like I am hording the money...........it will be gone within a few years?</p>
<p>"I am assuming that I would still be giving him money 'on the side'. I mean someone has to buy the contact lenses and pay the cell bill, right??"</p>
<p>It's reasonable to expect him to work fulltime or more during the summer, and to work at least 10 hours a week during the school year, more during school breaks, in order to pay for the types of things that you mention.</p>
<p>That's what I did in college (an Ivy) despite coming from a professional home. Many of my friends also did the same. Even a couple of friends whose dads were well off physicians took pride in working some kind of jobs during the school year and summer, and paying for at least some of the kind of expenses that you describe.</p>
<p>When it comes to low income students who aren't fortunate enough to go to financially generous schools, I know students who were working up to 30 hours a week during the school year while also exceling while taking full courseloads. Where there's a will, there's a way.</p>
<p>Some low income students even were sending home part of their earnings in order to help their parents, grandparents or siblings.</p>
<p>"I am assuming that I would still be giving him money 'on the side'. I mean someone has to buy the contact lenses and pay the cell bill, right??"</p>
<p>It's reasonable to expect him to work fulltime or more during the summer, and to work at least 10 hours a week during the school year, more during school breaks, in order to pay for the types of things that you mention.</p>
<p>That's what I did in college (an Ivy) despite coming from a professional home. Many of my friends also did the same. Even a couple of friends whose dads were well off physicians took pride in working some kind of jobs during the school year and summer, and paying for at least some of the kind of expenses that you describe.</p>
<p>When it comes to low income students who aren't fortunate enough to go to financially generous schools, I know students who were working up to 30 hours a week during the school year while also exceling while taking full courseloads. Where there's a will, there's a way.</p>
<p>Some low income students even were sending home part of their earnings in order to help their parents, grandparents or siblings.</p>
<p>MOmwithq--but the question isn't, how much will you have in a few years, but, how much do you have now? If you say 0, you are asking someone else to pay on the assumption that you don't have it. But you do. This would be fraud.</p>
<p>We started out with money in the bank, too, and now that our income has plummetted, it'd be nice to have that money not count (what's left of it, anyway), but it does. It still puts us ahead of people who have no resources, doesn't it?</p>
<p>And yes, a certain percent of FAFSAs are monitored for fraud. They'll ask for bank records, tax forms, etc. I wouldn't try it, myself.</p>
<p>Lying on the FAFSA can have serious consequences as it is a FEDERAL process. One of the things that the FAFSA investigates in its initial questions is who you (the student) and your parents are, and they do run checks for eligibility for aid. There are a number of situations they monitor and track, and fraud is one of them. It can effect your famiy for a long time.</p>
<p>Some things are easy to catch if you leave them out; others are a flag; still others an unlikely catch. $300K hidden under your mattress is not likely to be found. $300K sitting in a bank account will be caught in a audit, which they randomly do. $300K sitting in interest/div bearing accounts will be immediately flagged as the earnings will show up on a 1099. If you are audited, they will want all of your accounts, and can do a quick search for them. Remember these are the feds so they have access to accounts and account info as these banks/financial institutions are under their rules and regs and many accounts are insured by them. </p>
<p>Future plans for the money, regardless of how sensible they may be, do not cut it with college financial aid. Only the situation at hand. Anyone and everyone can come up with good uses for money. We have potential issues with two grandmothers that weigh heavily on us as they are elderly and health problems are cropping up. We also have a number of other things that are important enough to save for, and would have to come before education. None of this matters for financial aid NOW. When the time comes and the situation is immediately at hand simultaneous to the tuition need, some schools will review the particulars and MAY make adjustment to account for the issue. Some schools will not even do that.</p>
<p>They can audit at will.</p>
<p>When I first filled the FAFSA out 2 years ago, I ended up having to verify my info. When I was speaking to the f.a. officer at the school, I asked why I was being audited (it was pretty straightforward). She said it was either because (A) the EFC was low or (B) I had corrected the FAFSA twice after originally filed. </p>
<p>The first time I corrected it because I forgot to add in an amount I got from a 1099 - I did the FAFSA at the beginning of January and wasn't expecting the 1099 as it was freelance work I had done at the beginning of the previous year and had forgotten about it. The second time I corrected it was in February when I actually did my taxes and I tweaked it to match perfectly. </p>
<p>She also told me that anyone can be audited at any time - for no reason at all (just like the IRS has powers to do).</p>
<p>In fact, I filed the FAFSA on Jan. 1st for youngest D - with estimated amounts. When I got the SAR, there was a notation that the schools need to do a "verification." Fine with me - I'm not hiding anything.</p>
<p>"In fact, I filed the FAFSA on Jan. 1st for youngest D - with estimated amounts. When I got the SAR, there was a notation that the schools need to do a "verification." Fine with me - I'm not hiding anything."</p>
<p>We filed last week as well, how long does it take to get the SAR?</p>
<p>Filed on Jan 1st - SAR on Jan 3rd. We got a call from one of the colleges my D applied to on Jan 5th reminding us to file the FAFSA before Feb. 1st. I told the women we had and that they should have received the SAR on the 3rd. She said they hadn't downloaded the electronic files yet and probably wouldn't for another week or so.</p>
<p>
[quote]
So, who is to check if I put down that I have $0 in savings as opposed to $300,000 and what, if any, would a penalty be?
[/quote]
I'd say they may choose to use you as an example and you would face criminal charges, as would any family members knowingly participating in the fraud.</p>
<p>This is not a good idea.</p>