Laughing till I cry

<p>Last year two schools told us that they would not look at the fafsa until March, but they said that they note the date that the fafsa was filed. Those 2 schools said that they would look at applications for aid in the order that the application was filed.</p>

<p>"Filed on Jan 1st - SAR on Jan 3rd. We got a call from one of the colleges my D applied to on Jan 5th reminding us to file the FAFSA before Feb. 1st. I told the women we had and that they should have received the SAR on the 3rd. She said they hadn't downloaded the electronic files yet and probably wouldn't for another week or so."</p>

<p>We also received an email from FAFSA the day after we filed and it had a copy of what we had filled out. Is that considered the SAR? I was looking for the DRN so that I could send it out to other schools and it was not on there. Did not think that was the SAR.</p>

<p>Just wanted to say that I won't be cheating on the Fafsa, but my brain did leave me to wonder...............Not worth going to jail.</p>

<p>But, it really isn't fair. They really don't take into consideration where people live, etc. My real estate taxes alone are a little bit of $10,000 a year....and that's not for a castle! Oh well.</p>

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How far does Fafsa go in checking your money. For instance...say I have $300,000 in the bank....

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Then the bank will issue a 1099 showing that you have earned, say, $12,000 in interest over the past year. You will have to pay tax on that. That figure will show up on your 1040, and the college financial aid people will see it. You would have a huge problem explaining how you got all that interest on money you don't have.</p>

<p>One interesting note on the FAFSA, my D was at a public uni and moved off campus, so we paid rent monthly not quarterly for dorms. I called fin aid about filling out the FAFSA in year two. If we take a loan for school expenses, but the money is sitting in her account awaiting the Feb-Mar-Apr-May-Jun rent to be paid, yet it is not an asset for next year, it is the proceeds of a loan to be used for this year, how do I report it? I could prepay the rent, but that is spooky! The fin aid officer told me to leave that amount off when filing!!! :eek: I explained that I would prefer to give the actual amount in the aco**** and then show the lump sum which was for current year expenses, she said that could not be done. I do not recall how we actually handled it- I may have gone ahead and prepaid the rent, it was several years ago. I just recall it was a real catch 22 and there was no good answer.</p>

<p>The public schools I have dealt with have asked for verification every year, which is basically providing tax returns and filing out the same questions already asked on the FAFSA. I have noticed they sometimes adjust your FAFSA by adding back in self-employed expense items (depreciation, home office expences, etc.)</p>

<p>^I'm running into the same question with my S's food money. We decided not to buy the food plan, and I send him monthly checks instead. But until I send them, the money's in my account, instead of at the school like it would be if I bought the plan. Can't prepay, cuz then it would be in his account which would be worse. Not sure what the answer is for that.</p>

<p>Colleges only look for 5.6% of parental assets -- so if you've got $2000 in the bank that is intended to be spent on the kid's food or housing, that just translated into about $110 increased EFC.... and everyone else has ongoing expenses, too. I mean, some other family has money sitting in the bank that is "committed" to the property tax that comes due in April, or their kid's wisdom teeth extraction planned for the coming summer..... so I really don't see much unfairness about it. Chances are that if your son is off the food plan, you are probably saving money -sending him less than it would cost to buy into the plan -- but your need-based financial aid is still calculated based on the cost of the food plan -- so you really are coming out ahead.</p>

<p>Calmom, don't get me wrong, I'm not seriously bothered. It does seem though that in most cases, the money for this year's expenses does not figure into next year's expenses, except when you're not paying at the beginning of the term. Come to think of it, that's probably even a bigger issue for parents on payment plans.</p>

<p>It's different from ongoing house expenses, which are not part of paying for school, like property taxes, it seems to me. But not a big issue for us, certainly more so for off-campus or payment plan situations.</p>

<p>Calmom- in our case it came up because we were talking about a loan for college expenses which in the prior year had left no $ in our account, as they were paid up front for the dorm & mail plan, but in the second year, due to off campus living, the same loan funds were sitting there needing to be prepaid or claimed and that just seemed odd.</p>

<p>For instance property taxes can be prepaid before April, etc. It was just interesting that people could even have a school facilitated student loan wherein the funds loaned for the current year count "against" you for the next year. You are right, it is a small amount, unles it causes some one to be over the threshhold for the Pell or CalGrant or ACG grant, etc. Then it would be very important to that family.</p>

<p>Just another oddity and the finaid dept agreed it was crazy and had no good answer ;)</p>

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unless it causes some one to be over the threshhold for the Pell or CalGrant or ACG grant, etc.

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I think Pell or ACG grant eligibility is based on income, not assets -- and the CalGrant threshhold is pretty high -- if a couple of thousand in the bank would put someone over the limit, then that means they already have a chunk of money. My daughter was turned down for a Cal Grant because we are over the asset thresshold, but she ended up qualifying for a Pell and ACG grant. (It was all based on the same FAFSA, of course).</p>

<p>However, funds that you have that are educational loan funds may not be considered assets, especially if they are in a segregated account -- which is why you may have received the advice you did. If I borrow $1000, then I owe $1000 - so the net is 0 no matter when the borrowed funds are distributed. Just as if you owned real property that was worth $500,000, but were carrying a $400,000 mortgage, you wouldn't count that as a $500K asset --- you'd only report the equity. </p>

<p>My daughter got a refund from the college financial aid office of around $1200 for the fall semester after her grant amount was increased -- I told her to take the check to the bursar's office and sign it over to them on account for spring semester -- that way it got applied where it needed to go, and never went into her bank account.</p>

<p>
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I think Pell or ACG grant eligibility is based on income, not assets

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My understanding is that Pell grant eligibility is based on EFC - so both income and assets are involved. And ACG is based on Pell grant eligibilty. According to a thread I saw a couple of days ago EFC has to be $3850 or less to qualify for Pell. Don't know anything about about Cal Grant.</p>

<p>Yes, but my daughter qualified for a Pell even though my assets were too high to qualify for a Cal Grant -- Cal Grant has a specific asset ceiling that applies no matter what the EFC is. FAFSA will disregard assets totally under the simplified needs test if the family earnings are below a certain level (I think $50K) -- so a family could have $100K in the bank along with a $25K income and probably qualify for a Pell grant but not a Cal Grant. (This could easily happen to a family in the event of disability or job loss -- while it isn't a common situation it certainly is not impossible). Also, my daughter qualified for Pell/ACG because I had 2 kids in college -- the EFC was under $3500 because of that, but of course would have been double if my son weren't in school. But I don't think the Cal Grant asset ceiling is extended or changed in any way because of multiple siblings in college -- I think last year the asset ceiling was around $55K.</p>

<p>Also FAFSA has an asset protection allowance, Cal Grant does not -- and the FAFSA allowance is very generous for a married couple. If the oldest parent is age 60 or more, the asset allowance is at least $56K - so basically a family could be excluded from Cal Grant yet not have the assets considered at all for FAFSA.</p>

<p>Since I'm a single parent, for some odd reason FAFSA doesn't give me an equivalent exclusion -- the asset protection for a single parent is generally less than 40% of the amount protected in a 2-parent household. (If you want to talk about unfair.... you might start with that -- apparently since I don't have a husband, anything I have above around $16K is supposed to go to pay for my kid's college -- but a house with the added security of 2 wage earning parents gets to hang on to at least $42K of their money).</p>

<p>But the bottom line, if even FAFSA doesn't start counting the bucks until you hit $17K or so, then it isn't going to make much difference if you spend the rent money all at once or sit on it a couple of months-- presumably that's only a few thousand.</p>

<p>Calmom - I know what you are saying about the asset protection in FAFSA for single parents. I was looking at the chart for asset protection yesterday and was really shocked at how much it drops for a one parent family compared to 2. I can't imagine any logic in it being less than half. I would have expected it to be half or even a little over - not way under. We are a two parent family but my husbands health is not good. If the worst were to happen (sorry it's a bit morbid i know but I couldn't help it crossing my mind when I saw the numbers) I would already be in a bit of a financial bind and this odd quirk in the FAFSA would knock a few more nails into my coffin.</p>

<p>leaving stuff out (cheating is what this!) is a serious crime, as noted. Think what it would do to your child if you were arrested. Could the child be thrown out of college? You could be in jail, fined etc.
If you have 300,000 but have better uses for the money, send your child to community college, then a low cost state school. I truely don't see how it is not FAIR. You can hang onto the money if that is your focus. Do not fall for the urban myth that you worked hard and the poor did not and you both get the same deal. As others are writing about - a zero EFC doesn't mean you get squat.<br>
In the past years as you and others saved money I have spent 10-20k a year on out of pocket medical costs. I've paid out somewhere around 200k, maybe 250k - I don't want to add it up. I have NO assets and a low EFC, which may not help much towards getting funds and pay 400 a month for current loans on the extended payment plan.
the FA folks cannot take that into account. It is against the law to consider any year but this one. not prior, not future expenses. They can look at current bills for needed items that we ran up the prior year if we are paying them now, and that is it. They are audited randomly so they are careful to verify things.</p>

<p>swimcat, calmom -- document this and contact legislators, lawyer, ACLU? It may not help you but down the road some single parents would thank you.</p>

<p>fafsa has lots of warnings about penalties. There I am filling out a form for my kid, and I am threatened with a $20,000 fine if I am not really him. Like HE is the one that is supposed to type in all the info on my income, wages, 401k contribution, cash and savings account balance, and if I do it instead of him they threaten me with a $20k fine. I ended up telling him what I was doing and saying, "ok? you are effectively doing this, right?" "yeah dad, whatever..." </p>

<p>I certainly wouldn't recommend hiding assets or lying, but clearly there is a "game" that can be played legally. Garland, what if you stockpiled cans of food and sent those to your son monthly instead of cash? (poor kid!!) OK, what if you purchased McDonalds gift cards? Some people will play all kinds of angles.</p>

<p>'they' probably read cc and now next year gift cards will have to be listed as assets. Thanks a lot NJ! ;)</p>

<p>LOL, NJres! (He'd probably love the Mickey D's cards).</p>

<p>I think I'll just prepay my property taxes instead.</p>

<p>


????? What's to "document"? The asset protection allowances are written in the schedules. It would be like "documenting" the difference in tax rates for head of household vs. single tax payers vs. joint filers: all you have to do is look at the chart to see the discrepancy. </p>

<p>I have no clue as to why they have it set up to give married couples the greater asset protection allowance, but it is not an accident -- it is clearly intentional.</p>

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I have no clue as to why they have it set up to give married couples the greater asset protection

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</p>

<p>Is it possible "they" want people to pick mates carefully, get married, and stay married? Not saying it's fair or effective, just that that might be the policy.</p>

<p>There are similar policy reasons behind the home equity exclusion and IRA/401k exclusions. They want to encourage people to do certain things, so advantages are built into the FAFSA formulae.</p>