<p>Interesting…I’m primarily working towards being accepted to medical school, but a lawyer is second on my list of dream careers. This trend in society’s plummeting interest in the law enforcement field was a shock to me. I’m applying to an alternative high school, and about 3/4th of the applicants have their first choice as a medical student! It’s surprising to me that the majority of children my age want a job in the medical field.</p>
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<p>There is an excess of lawyers, except where there isn’t. There are still plenty of places in this country where people’s legal needs are under served.</p>
<p>yale: There isn’t a plummeting interest in law enforcement-there’s a plummeting number of jobs for JDs-per the Bureau of Labor Statistics, there are twice as many JDs graduated annually as there are jobs that require that degree. And yes, there is a strong interest in medicine as a career: my community awards 24 small scholarships to HS seniors. Of the 24 recipients, 23 said they were going to major in pre-med.
cartera: “There is an excess of lawyers, except where there isn’t. There are still plenty of places in this country where people’s legal needs are under served.” Other than opinion, do you have any evidence to support this statement. All the numbers I’ve seen indicate that there are more than enough attorneys everywhere in the country-and where exactly in the US are the legally underserved?</p>
<p>I wonder how much 1L enrollments will drop for 2014…</p>
<p>In contradiction to acceptances to T14 schools becoming more competitive, I recently saw a few articles regarding less LSAT takers from the 165-180 range. Apparently there’ve been huge boosts to the <150 numbers, but a shrinkage for 165+ students, making admission at T14’s (a slight, slight, slight bit) easier. </p>
<p>Source (albeit an old article, but there are more like it somewhat recently): [The</a> Wrong People Have Stopped Applying to Law School - Jordan Weissmann - The Atlantic](<a href=“The Wrong People Have Stopped Applying to Law School - The Atlantic”>The Wrong People Have Stopped Applying to Law School - The Atlantic)</p>
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<p>Perhaps, but good luck earning enough to pay back that crippling loan debt.</p>
<p>[Good</a> Jobs Available In The Middle Of Nowhere « Above the Law: A Legal Web Site ? News, Commentary, and Opinions on Law Firms, Lawyers, Law Schools, Law Suits, Judges and Courts + Career Resources](<a href=“http://abovethelaw.com/2013/10/good-jobs-available-in-the-middle-of-nowhere/]Good”>Good Jobs Available In The Middle Of Nowhere - Above the Law)</p>
<p>That’s good news. I had heard that in past years there was a surplus of law students unable to find work. The amount of law students actually surpassed the demand at one point.</p>
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<p>I thought it was common sense but if you want to read about it. </p>
<p><a href=“No Lawyer for 100 Miles, So One Rural State Offers Pay - The New York Times”>No Lawyer for 100 Miles, So One Rural State Offers Pay - The New York Times;
<p>[Luring</a> Doctors And Lawyers To Rural America : NPR](<a href=“Luring Doctors And Lawyers To Rural America : NPR”>Luring Doctors And Lawyers To Rural America : NPR)</p>
<p>[Good</a> Jobs Available In The Middle Of Nowhere « Above the Law: A Legal Web Site ? News, Commentary, and Opinions on Law Firms, Lawyers, Law Schools, Law Suits, Judges and Courts + Career Resources](<a href=“http://abovethelaw.com/2013/10/good-jobs-available-in-the-middle-of-nowhere/]Good”>Good Jobs Available In The Middle Of Nowhere - Above the Law)</p>
<p>Actually, common sense suggests the opposite: if an area can’t support a single lawyer, then there’s not enough business in that area and it isn’t underserved. If an area thought it was underserved, it would find the funds to pay a lawyer. But these areas won’t, which is one of the many dirty little secrets of the practice of law: nobody wants to pay for a lawyer.
But let’s look at the articles: the ATL piece supports my argument-if you pay a lawyer, s/he’ll stick around. The NPR piece conveniently lumps “doctors and lawyers” together, even though the professions aren’t even vaguely similar-nor are the current job prospects in each. But the NYT piece is the most amusing: it quotes many decrying the lack of lawyers in certain areas, but doesn’t quote a single bit of evidence that anyone’s underserved. Rather, it notes that certain geographic areas don’t have lawyers-but how many people live in these areas? Do they want to pay a lawyer? You’ll note that the octogenarian lawyer doesn’t have an-or any-associate(s), and didn’t sell/give his practice to anyone. This strongly suggests that there isn’t enough business to support a lawyer. There are enough lawyers looking for work that if he had a sufficient book he’d easily find someone to take over his practice. The article strongly suggests that even after decades of practicing, he’s got no business to pass on to anyone.
These areas aren’t underserved; they just don’t want to pay for having a lawyer around. As the ATL piece points out, it’s the lack of enough business to support themselves and a family that’s keeping lawyers out of remote rural areas.</p>
<p>Crankyoldman - Agree with your posting completely. Not to mention considerations about lifestyle, prospective chances of employment for a spouse, or great schools for their kids in these areas. </p>
<p>Some of my kid’s classmates from last year’s graduating class (a state/regional law school) are still looking for their first legal jobs. The placement office was useless, but took credit whenever anyone found a job on their own. A few students did find jobs with family members, and a top student was hired in a nonpartner track by a biglaw branch office. Some students found low paying associate jobs with small neighborhood firms. Of course, not everyone is reporting what they’re doing so perhaps some of the grads are doing well and just choose not to brag.</p>
<p>Optimistic applicants who intended to become energy lawyers, environmental lawyers, international lawyers, patent lawyers, corporate lawyers, litigators, biglaw, etc. are finding that it’s difficult to find any job at all. Specialty certificates only served to disqualify students from other jobs. New lawyers are competing in the marketplace with lawyers who are trying to change practice areas, 3Ls hunting for work, and unemployed or underemployed lawyers. </p>
<p>Maybe the T14 is still finding work, but IMO law school is a very dangerous and expensive investment for the majority of other students. And that’s before we talk about the fact that dreams of prestige, good pay, having clients that will do what you tell them to do, making policies, etc. are also na</p>
<p>“Based on recent experience, I’d recommend plumbing or electrical schools instead. Try finding an electrician or a plumber these days! They’re a lot harder to find and their hourly rates are pretty much the same as those of the neighborhood lawyers. Placing an ad in a local newspaper or the yellow pages is sure to result in calls, without the overhead of an office.”</p>
<p>The problem is that the intellectual stimulation in those jobs is approximately zero.</p>
<p>Law’s bad enough in terms of boredom.</p>
<p>“Based on recent experience, I’d recommend plumbing or electrical schools instead. Try finding an electrician or a plumber these days! They’re a lot harder to find and their hourly rates are pretty much the same as those of the neighborhood lawyers. Placing an ad in a local newspaper or the yellow pages is sure to result in calls, without the overhead of an office.”</p>
<p>You’re simply replacing one overhead with another; plumbers/electricians incur overhead expenditures, too. However, I am not familiar with how much that overhead is.</p>
<p>I know a plenty of law grads much worse off than the majority of plumbers, career-wise (no job) and finance-wise (debt). </p>
<p>It is just sad to think about. Law grads went through 4 years of college and 3 years of grad work, and end up worse-off than a high school drop-out.</p>
<p>“The problem is that the intellectual stimulation in those jobs is approximately zero.”</p>
<p>Spoken like a true pseudo-intellectual snob. I can think of a number of responses, not the least of which is “Who would want to be a (fill in the blank). You never get the satisfaction of fixing something with your hands!”</p>
<p>"“The problem is that the intellectual stimulation in those jobs is approximately zero.”</p>
<p>Spoken like a true pseudo-intellectual snob. I can think of a number of responses, not the least of which is “Who would want to be a (fill in the blank). You never get the satisfaction of fixing something with your hands!”"</p>
<p>Please.</p>
<p>My undergrad degree is in chemical engineering. </p>
<p>At one point I considered going into civil engineering and toured waste water treatment plants, since a friend of our family had a civil engineering consulting business.</p>
<p>If I had found engineering to be the least bit interesting, I would have become a chemical or civil engineer.</p>