<p>Hi -- my son has been admitted so far to Earlham (first choice), St Mary's Coll of Md, Guilford, and Washington Coll in Md. We are still waiting to hear from Beloit & American. He is a very smart kid who, due to ADHD, has been in a small supportive high school. Even with 1330 SATs I am concerned about the transition to college. My experience with the LD office at Earlham so far has been quite the opposite of the warmth and engagement we felt both in the Pope book and in our 2 day visit. We'd like to get more of an "inside scoop" on the academic culture and attitude toward LD at Earlham and the other schools on our list -- anyone have any first-hand experience? (FYI I have read the thread about the student asked to leave Guilford. Certainly very disturbing.) Thank you!</p>
<p>On our visit to Earlham the student who showed us around clearly had language learning issues. We were surprised she was a tour guide, but so be it. Everywhere we turned at the school there was another professor greeting her by her first name (this was the summer) with great warmth. She would then relate how the professor had gotten her through one bind or another.</p>
<p>This was not what my son was looking for in a school, honestly, but it certainly was unique. I have no other experience with Earlham, but I have to say that it did feel like a place where a kid with learning or attention issues would get plenty of support. I also liked the admissions office folks...</p>
<p>Get on the phone to the Admissions Director Jeff Rickey - a personal friend. As I remember (it is some time ago), his d. has LD issues (is now a senior at Hope, I think.) Doesn't matter, though. He admitted your son, and has rather an encyclopedic memory, so is likely to remember the application. Ask your questions very directly, and if he can't answer them, I would be shocked if he doesn't find you the answers, either positive or negative, that you need. It clearly isn't going to make a difference in the admissions decision, so there's no risk. </p>
<p>Hey, they're expecting you to shell out all that money, so your expectation should be that they owe you an answer.</p>
<p>Now, having said that, how does your son feel about all of this? I have known youth who have gone through school successfully with various LD labels, and when going to college, just want to get away from them, and try doing things like everyone else does. In such cases, it is nice to have an LD office to fall back on, but it may offer services that the student does not want to access, even if it means lower grades. (Last weekend, I met a woman with semi-severe autism who finished a B.A. in Fine Arts, who would go up to every teacher at the beginning of term, tell him/her what was going on), and absolutely refused any extra assistance, even in course registration, for a full four years.)</p>
<p>I agree with Mini - call the admissions director and ask specifically. Be frank - let him know that Earlham is your son's first choice but you haven't been thrilled with the response from the LD center. As mini says, you're going to pay the bills there so it would be good to know up front how responsive they will be when you are not satisfied with your son's experiences.</p>
<p>I do notice that on their web site Earlham clearly says they do not offer a comprehensive LD program, but will make accomodations for LD students - could it be that you are not getting the answers you want simply because Earlham doesn't offer those sorts of things? Or, rather, offers support through other on-campus programs instead of the LD office? (See <a href="http://www.earlham.edu/policies/learning-disabilities.html%5B/url%5D">http://www.earlham.edu/policies/learning-disabilities.html</a> if you haven't already for Earlham's LD policies). Again, something to ask the admissions director.</p>
<p>One thing you should keep in mind about Earlham is that it is a very writing-intensive curriculum. Even kids without learning disabilities there complain about the volume of writing they have to do for their courses. If your son isn't comfortable with writing, that may be an issue to discuss in detail when you talk to the admissions director. My daughter has Earlham high on her list so I would be very interested to hear how they respond to your questions. </p>
<p>You might also want to go to livejournal.com and do an "interest" search for Earlham. There is a VERY active student discussion board and the students are very good about telling prospective students the pro's and con's of Earlham - you could ask there directly if anyone has any experience with the LD office and I am positive you would get responses. You could also ask about how students feel about the other support services on campus. (Just be prepared - Earlham students are a pretty vocal bunch. They have no qualms about stating the negatives but will be pretty honest about the positives as well. My daughter and I have found it to be one of the best school livejournal sites out there for asking questions and getting a feel for the students and school culture)</p>
<p>As for Guilford, I see you saw the discussion. As always, take a single story with a grain of salt but ask a lot of questions. Mini has indicated to me that he feels the academics at Guilford are somewhat less challenging than at Earlham --- but that isn't always a good thing!</p>
<p>I think quite highly of St. Mary's - my son attended a summer program there last year and I had the opportunity to talk with their president at length. It seems like a wonderful, supportive school with excellent academics. I would pursue learning about all three schools LD programs at the same time. Again , please let us know what you find out!</p>
<p>Wow -- I'd never heard of livejournal.com before. What a way to feel instantly old. I'm enjoying reading the Earlhamites "community" but so far feel a bit intimidated by the students -- you'd think I didn't have teenagers of my own. I very much appreciate everyone's responses, which go to the core issue of, "How do we find out what these schools are REALLY like?" and "You never really know how your kid is going to do in college or like the college that s/he chooses until s/he goes." As parents we try to make it all perfect, pave the way, etc, etc, right? This wonderful listserv is testament to our efforts to be omniscient.
Anyway, regarding Earlham, I did email Jeff last week and got an immediate response from him and his senior associate who interviewed my son. I like Jeff very much from the several emails we've exchanged these past few months. They were concerned about my experience.They were very reassuring to the effect that what I was looking for might better be gotten from a very hands-on academic advisor, and that one could make a special request for such an advisor. Firends have warned me tho -- make sure the admissions people have that kind of influence; their job is to sell the school.
What am I looking for that I didn't get or feel I got? Well, let me say that we visited Beloit, which I suspect is a similar kind of school. No comprehensive LD program either, but we spent a lovely hour with the head of the academic support office who shared her experience with common pitfalls for all freshmen and offered pointers as to how to prepare to ease the transition -- strengthening notetaking skills, for example. I conveyed my desire for a regular appointment for my son, at least first semester, to review long term assignments and make sure that his planning and organizational efforts (executive function) were on target. She seemed to really understand that need. At Earlham, on the other hand, the official said that type of service was not offered. She seemed perhaps less flexible, more oriented to very specific, classical accommodations like extra time or keyboarding on tests. If I hadn't had such a different experience at Beloit I'd have chalked it all up to my being an overprotective mom, unaccustomed to "the college way."
Anyway, I hope that conveys what I was expecting and why I came away wanting to "get inside the schools" in question.
Carolyn, may I also ask you two totally unrelated questions about St Mary's? My son visited with his dad, so I never went there. We are from NYC and he will not have a car if he goes. How in the middle of nowhere is it????? Also, we are Jewish and although not religious I am concerned about how truly diverse the student body is. Without offending anyone on this list, may I ask if you think it is very "preppy" (30 yrs ago I went to Trinity in Ct and loved it, but it was an adjustment after NYC.) Thanks again. The collective wisdom of this list is awe-inspiring.</p>
<p>Yes, those live journals do make you feel kind of old and out of touch, don't they? :)</p>
<p>My daughter also has Beloit on her list and I have heard from various sources that they do an excellent job of supporting students through the first two years. I haven't yet gotten that same feeling from Earlham but Earlham has some other things going for it that interest my daughter so we will see. We'll be visiting both schools later this month.</p>
<p>Regarding St. Mary's. First, you might want to try contacting the St. Mary's Hillel to ask how diverse the campus is in terms of religion --- a check of their web site found this contact:
Hillel
Noah Jacobs
<a href="mailto:nhjacobs@smcm.edu">nhjacobs@smcm.edu</a>
If that's not active, try calling and asking if they can give you a current contact.</p>
<p>As a public school, St. Mary's attracts a variety of kids but the student body is definitely more main stream than at Earlham or Guilford. I suspect you'll find less pot smokers and more beer drinkers at St. MAry's than at Earlham (at least judging by the trash I saw on a sunday morning last summer). There also seems to be more interest in athletics at St. Mary's but I wouldn't necessarily say it was "preppy" in the way that a Trinity or a Dickinson is. Again, as a public school, you're going to find a variety of types of people where as Earlham and Guilford (and Trinity!) tend to be more self-selecting.</p>
<p>That said, St. Mary's is pretty isolated. The nearest shopping is about 15 minutes drive from campus and it is of the strip mall variety, not really a little town where college students could walk around. I would say a car would be helpful, although I think (double check) that they have some sort of shuttle service to the shopping area from campus. The campus is really quite beautiful - it was hard to believe that this was a public school as it felt so much like a private LAC.</p>
<p>These are issues with which I am mostly unfamiliar. I do know that the faculty/student relationships at Earlham tend to be so close, even in the first year, that I'm wondering if it is their assumption that the kind of attention you are seeking for your son is normally available through the faculty for ALL students? Honestly, I don't know.</p>
<p>I do know that Jeff is VERY influential, so I'd still get on the phone....</p>
<p>Mini - yes, that was what his associate tried to convey, that it was the overall philosophy of the school for faculty and students to "collaborate," rather than just an LD thing. I'm glad to hear Jeff is influential; he certainly sets a remarkable tone for the school and I would hate to think he is just "a salesman." Have you all heard about the personalized acceptance letters they send? I've never seen such a thing. It's a "form letter" of course, but each student's high school accomplishments and "special qualities" are specifically noted in the acceptance letter.</p>
<p>It's the "Quaker" thing. Jeff knows everybody by first name...and he studies. You have to remember - the "Friendly" world is rather small, and when we are at our best (I more often than not fail in that department), we know it is all about relationships. Jeff has spoken to me about his own conflicted feelings about Earlham quickly becoming more selective - he would rather be LESS selective in the admissions office and have students and their families become more self-selective. (I've kidded with him that they should move the main campus to Vermont, and have Indiana be part of their "foreign study programs", but he is very happy Earlham isn't in Vermont or Massachusetts: given the fact that a lot of what they offer simply isn't available at eastern schools, they'd be swamped!)</p>
<p>You can tell, obviously, that I'm a booster, and I didn't go there, nor did any of my relatives, nor my older d., nor will my younger one.</p>
<p>likes2draw - my wife got in touch with Hillel at St. Mary's. Jewish population is small but supposedly "active". Agree with rec to email N. Jacobs.</p>
<p>Funny, I've gone to the <a href="http://www.hillel.org%5B/url%5D">www.hillel.org</a> site many times but don't find any information about St Mary's. I'm curious how you were able to get a Hillel rep for that school?
Thanks, Susan</p>
<p>Mini-
My son went to a Quaker elementary school and loved it and I had a "secular humanist" education so we were naturally attracted to the values espoused by Earlham and Guilford. He has been accepted at Guilford too, with a slightly lower merit award, but the lower tuition there equals it all out. I hear Greensboro is a pretty cool town. I'm equally concerned about the academics there being not challenging enough as I am about Earlham being too challenging.
I'm curious why your kids are not interested in attending, if that's something you want to share.</p>
<p>The Hillel site has zip...the email address is available from the St. Mary site under student life/clubs/etc. How does a Jewish kid from the city end up applying to St. Mary's?</p>
<p>Susan, I just did a search at the St. Mary's site. The Hillel site doesn't always get updated so I prefer to actually search at the school site.</p>
<p>There are so many reasons why Earlham has remained high on my daughter's list: she attends a Catholic high school with a strong sense of community and mission where students are encouraged to question and evaluate ideas and values. She is looking for the same thing in a college and Earlham seems to fit the bill. She is somewhat quirky --- has never been one to dress according to fashion, marches to her own drummer, likes to be around people interested in talking about ideas rather than things. Studying abroad is extremely important to her and she likes how Earlham's programs always seem to include an experiential aspect that gets kids out into the community/country where they are studying. She is very interested in some sort of social service career - either teaching or social work - and when she read about Earlham's Human Development and Social Relations major, it was as though she'd found nirvana. She would strongly prefer not to go to a school with frats/sororities and where partying is more low key. Weve looked at a few "preppy" schools and she practically ran off the campus - just not her. Earlham has been described to her by a few students as being "pleasantly damp" in terms of alcohol and she likes that description. Finally, she has been riding since she was 9 and adores the whole concept of the student-run equestrian cooperative (Even if she doesn't end up bringing her horse, she can at least ride and meet others with that same interest).</p>
<p>Unfortunately, I do see a few potential negatives -- First, she is pretty middle of the road in terms of her political views and social relationships (might make her a minority at Earlham but she's open to being persuaded), the art department is limited (she would like to pursue art classes in college), class offerings can be limited in some departments, and Earlham is in Indiana --- she is a girl who loves the mountains! I'm not sure how she will react to Richmond as she has grown up in a fairly small town and the other top schools on her list are close or in larger cities. Earlham is also the smallest school on her list --- not sure how that will play out.</p>
<p>You may have guessed that I am pretty anxious about our visit this month --- it is the one school that has been on her list since last fall so I hope she won't be disappointed. But, we'll see. Even if Earlham isn't for her, I think it is a terrific school in many ways.</p>
<p>"I'm curious why your kids are not interested in attending, if that's something you want to share."</p>
<p>I would have LOVED to have them attend, and Earlham would have loved to have them. My older D. spent 3 days there, and she has lots of friends there in town, and I have f(F)riends on the faculty and.... The thing is, she is a composer, and a rather serious one, and the music faculty just could not meet her rather advanced needs. (By the way, Dan Graves, the head of the music department, is terrific!) We even looked at options whereby she would take composition classes at Indiana U. (a rather famous place), but it just wasn't going to work. The arts are also less strong than she would like (Earlham is now working to beef them up), though oddly enough, it was the one school with course offerings in weaving, which was a big plus for her. Sigh. (One of the big attractions at Smith is that it was one of the few colleges she applied to with an active Friends Meeting in town - not just students. She got herself into the residential house closest to it, and is now quite active in the Meeting and has adult friends all over town, which we think is a real plus, not being totally confined to a "student ghetto".)</p>
<p>My younger one is a budding Division I gymnast, a concert pianist, and an urbanite! so, sadly, it isn't going to work for her either. So I'm reduced to getting other people's children to attend, or at least to take a look. (If I had to do it again, knowing what I know now, it is likely where I would go.)</p>
<p>I have friends at Guilford (and actually spoke there last year.) The area is beautiful, and the faculty is very committed. It is less academically challenging than Earlham, and doesn't have the amazing foreign study array that Earlham has, but has the same community service and experiential emphasis, including the Bonner Scholars program, and close attention both to community and individual needs.</p>
<p>Well, I'm back from a week's vacation and now onto the home stretch: decision among Earlham, St Mary's. Guilford. Decided to fly down to NC for the admitted students/family open house on April 8-9, since Guilford is the one school we never visited. I want to figure out: are the academics too soft or are they just what the doctor ordered for a kid transitioning out of a tiny high school with much LD support? Is Greensboro a better location for an ex-city kid with a new license and no prayer of a car? Is there a noticeable difference between 1100 students and 1900? On the heels of the sobering "Guilford thread", do we have any other firsthand reports from current students or parents?
Thanks to Carolyn and Oldman for the Hillel contact at St Mary's -- he sent me a very welcoming letter confirming the "small but active" Jewish community. (Oldman: our college advisor recommended St Mary's as another school with "good academics and less social pretense" -- along with Earlham, Guilford, Macalester, Oberlin, & a few others which we dropped along the way.)</p>
<p>Likes2draw, PLEASE post a full report of your visit to Guilford. My daughter would like to have it on her list but after that thread, I grew concerned and haven't encouraged it. She'd particularly like to know how the students dress (don't laugh - as I said, she hates schools where the girls are gussied up with pocketbooks. She wants to be able to express herself after years of school uniforms) and what the surrounding community is like - any shops, restaurants or coffee shops nearby. I do have a friend who lived in Greensboro until very recently and liked it quite a bit (she was originally from NYC).</p>
<p>Likes2Draw -- Hope your visit is very informational. I have lived in the Greensboro area and still have family there. I think it's a very "livable" area, just the right size unless somebody really wants the full "big city" experience. But the lack of a car could be a problem -- it's not that easy to get around Greensbor or the area without one, due to limited public transportation. However, after a short time I'm sure that your son will have acquaintances with cars (speaking as the "guy with the car" from my college days, just make sure he offers to buy gas every now and then). Looking forward to a full report upon your return.</p>
<p>I've been off the list trying to talk to as many current students and parents at the schools we are choosing from, before May 1 rolls around. But what I wanted to mention, especially to Carolyn, whose D is so interested in Earlham: try to attend their 2-day "preview" if possible. It was the best organized and most thorough look at a college that I have ever experienced. Parents and students were made so welcome and were treated to very in-depth Q&As, luncheons, tours, class visits, dorm stays, interviews, etc etc.... I ate lunch with the Dean of the Faculty, attended a wonderful meeting with all the major administrative/student life heads, and really got what a felt was a substantive taste of this unique school. I think for any kid, even if Earlham is not high on the list, this visit would be a wonderful way to begin thinking about the reality of college. I think they have a fall and a spring event. Well worth it.
S attended several other "special" programs for prospective students and found them a waste of time. Mock classes, talks that simply reiterated what you can read online: they seemed like ways of economizing on the cost and labor of touring lots of prospies, having to provide dorm & class visits, etc. But the Earlham program was the exception: truly worthwhile for us (and they got at least one convert -- us!)</p>
<p>Did your LD questions get answered? (I'm interested in learning what you found out.)</p>